Intel P35: Intel's Mainstream Chipset Grows Up
by Gary Key & Wesley Fink on May 21, 2007 3:45 PM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
Final Words
The P965 launch is still too fresh in our memory to ignore. It appeared the roughest launch in recent Intel memory with a BIOS a day, and sometimes several a day, in the early going. Many of the features did not work, or at least did not work consistently until several months of BIOS updates. While the hard work has paid off for manufacturers and P965 is now a capable chipset, it is still not the paragon of reliability that we normally expect of Intel chipsets.Contrast that to today's performance launch of P35, and the differences are striking. P35 is very mature at launch and is generally a joy to work with. That is not to say it is perfect, as manufacturers are still scrambling to fully support all the new added features of the chipset. The base performance, however, is stable, and P35 returns us to the confidence we normally feel for Intel chipsets.
Some will say this is the result of the fact that P35 is just a mild upgrade of P965, fixing what is wrong with that chipset. We don't agree, since features like 1333 processor bus and support for DDR3 memory to 1333 speed and beyond are significant additions that definitely impact performance. Also significant is full support for the upcoming 45nm Penryn processors. As you have seen in the P35 benchmarks these are not just minor "fixes" - they are features that have a significant impact in improving system performance. No doubt Intel did tweak the base P965 code in the process, and we are grateful for that, but P35 introduces too much new that improves performance to just be considered a respin.
Looking at the four motherboards evaluated in this launch review, it is clear that all of the boards are very good with existing features like memory to DDR2-1066 and the current 1066 processor bus. However, when we move into the new performance areas of 1333 processor bus, DDR3, and 1333 memory speed, the ASUS P5K3 and P5K twins have the edge over the Gigabyte and MSI offerings. The MSI and Gigabyte are very good boards, and BIOS updates received during testing have us expecting them to be the equal of the ASUS boards in another BIOS spin or two. In fact, the Gigabyte BIOS received this weekend moves the P35 DQ6 into performance parity with the ASUS boards in early testing. For now, however, the ASUS pair is more polished in their implementation.
You will not, however, have to suffer with the Gigabyte or MSI as they both perform exceptionally well with the components we now have. Any of the four platforms will provide a rock solid base for a new system, performing better than just about any P965 board we have tested. You will not have to struggle with these P35 boards as many of you did with early P965. We also fully expect the Gigabyte and MSI to mature quickly in the "added features and refinement" category of P35.
What we did find in testing the P35 boards is that BIOS tuning is paramount to extracting the best possible performance from each board. ASUS's BIOS is very mature at this point and the extra features like Transaction Booster and CPU Voltage Damper actually make a difference in the performance of the board. We have also noticed the manufacturers starting to open up the BIOS with settings that will greatly assist the enthusiast in extracting the best possible performance from this chipset. However, we would still like to see the ability to change chipset straps and additional memory settings in the high-end P35 products.
Overall performance of the P35 chipset was impressive with it constantly finishing at the top of our benchmarks. Even though the differences in scores were minimal at times, the level of consistency shown by this chipset was impressive. The addition of DDR3 memory support, the improved memory controller, and the upcoming 1333FSB processors indicate that this mainstream chipset is a force to be reckoned with both with today's components and those on the horizon.
In current games like Prey we found a 9% increase in frame rates between the ASUS P5K3 at 1333/1333 and the Gigabyte P35-DQ6 at 1066/1066. Granted, the move to a 1333 FSB provided about a 6% improvement in frame rates on the DDR2 platform. However, once lower latency DDR3-1333 is available we expect the combination of this memory and the switch to 1333FSB processors to possibly create double-digit improvements in applications that are memory bandwidth and latency sensitive. Our main concern at this time is the cost and lack of widespread availability for DDR3 memory. Latency and speed improvements are developing quickly for DDR3 but cost appears to be the biggest stumbling block for entry into this technology now. Hopefully this will not be an issue six months from now as DDR3 ramps up in both production and system installs at major OEMs.
The ICH9R brings improved disk performance and in early RAID 5 and 10 testing we are seeing a 2% ~ 4% improvement in certain applications when compared to the ICH8R. The ICH9 also blesses us with an additional two USB ports and improved performance. Typical benchmarks like HD Tach or HD Tune do not show a difference in USB performance over the ICH8R currently; however, we are seeing measurable improvements in write and read speeds under Vista when comparing the two chipsets and a few minor compatibility issues seemed to have been solved. While not up to the speed of NVIDIA's USB solution, it is nice to see Intel making incremental improvements quickly.
We have explained the benefits of the chipset and provided an early look at its performance potential. What are the drawbacks? The P35 performance is impressive and the chipset along with the first wave of boards seem to be very solid. The problem is the cost of entry might be more than one is willing to spend to upgrade from a recently purchased P965, 680i, 650i, or even 975X board. Power consumption was a concern for us. Based on the current chipset TDP ratings we expected the power envelope to be near the P965 or possibly improved depending upon how aggressive Intel implemented power saving features on this chipset. Instead, we end up with a chipset that now consumes more power than the 680i and requires even more elaborate cooling. Something the motherboard companies have obviously taken to heart by the amount of heat pipes on the boards now. We doubt all of it is really needed but it is amusing for the time being to see the manufacturers trying to outdo each other in both design and amount of aluminum they can squeeze into a three inch square space.
There is no doubt after testing P35 that it is clearly the best-performing chipset you can buy today. Intel has done an excellent job in the added features, and performance is superb. P35 is at its best in gaming and memory-intensive applications, where the performance improvements are most dramatic. If you are building a new system there is a lot to like with P35, and it all starts with improved performance.
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yacoub - Monday, May 21, 2007 - link
I think HardOCP's conclusion is pretty honest. These boards are a first gen DDR3 setup that has to transition well from DDR2. Performance will be similar, they will offer a few new decent hardware features, but beyond that for most folks they should stick with their P965 or 650i/680i boards and their speedy DDR2 and wait until around a year from now when DDR3 will start to appear that legitimately outperforms DDR2 in a noticeable way and hopefully by then is cost competitive with DDR2.Right now we can get 2x1GB matched pairs of decent PC6400 DDR2 for around (and under) $100. When DDR3 reaches prices like that they'll see more converts from the enthusiast crowd. Or when they start showing performance gains on the order of 15-25% over DDR2.
tomoyo - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link
I don't think anyone should be thinking about an upgrade from a p965 in the first place, you've already gotten a core 2 duo and are waiting for the next gen of penryn! Obviously the point of this motherboard chipset is for new buyers, especially people who do not have a core 2 duo in the first place. That is exactly what my situation is, I'm sitting on an amd platform still and looking into when a good chipset/cpu combo is out. The P35 is it for myself, I like the higher fsb overclock and full set of features, hopefully the price will come down quickly as well. Also it's finally gotten to a point where we can get a full set of sata devices with no ide involved...which eliminates the jmicron issue.Wesley Fink - Monday, May 21, 2007 - link
If we were buying a new board today it would be P35 - based on our test results and not our untested opinions. Gaming is faster, memory performance is faster (even with DDR2), and the 1333 processor bus gives current C2D owners a "free" 25% overclcok in most cases.We would likely buy a P35 that supports DDR2 memory, because there is a large price difference in DDR2 and DDR3 right now, and DDR2 is just as fast as DDR3 on the P35 at the same speed and timings - and DDR2 is faster on P35 than P965.
However, we already have our first samples of low-latency DDR3 in for testing. Recommending DDR3 will be about how fast we see price parity with DDR2 as it is definitely the memory of the future.
suryad - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link
Any ideas on when an SLI based P35 setup would be released? That is about the only thing that is holding me back from purhcasing a P35 mobo. I want SLI.yacoub - Monday, May 21, 2007 - link
"If we were buying a new board today "Right. And the HardOCP editorial was writing more for those of us who already own a fairly recent board and are wondering if the performance is significant enough to warrant another upgrade. Conclusion: it isn't.
You're both right, in other words. If you're buying a new board today, no major reasons NOT to buy a P35 unless it's a DDR3 one in which case DDR3 is cost prohibitive and offers little to no real performance benefit. If you already have a P965, 650i, 680i, etc, no reason to upgrade.
tomoyo - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link
Actually that's not true, according to Kyle, he's endorsing the P965 for all users, new or old. I think he's gotten far too distrustful for new products, especially when this one looks pretty promising. Since the P35 is more of an evolution than anything else, it's a good possibility that we'll get some pretty stable products right off the bat. And I'm of the opinion that a cheap 5% performance upgrade and mobo with full penryn voltage support is worthwhile at the right price for any new user. I do think it'll be a good idea to wait about a month and see if there is any fallout before diving in.Wesley Fink - Monday, May 21, 2007 - link
That was an editorial, not a review. There was not a single test result in that article.On the other hand, we are late to NDA because we got 3 new P35 boards on Friday, and we wanted to bring you real test results based on four motherboards. Our comments and conclusions are based on testing a large number of P35 motherboards, and both DDR2 and DDR3 memory on these boards.
michal1980 - Monday, May 21, 2007 - link
I know, but his conculsion was to get a mature p965, yours a p35. uggh.JarredWalton - Monday, May 21, 2007 - link
With the testing results provided here (and in our previous articles), we're comfortable in saying that P35 is already quite mature, particularly the ASUS boards. If you already have a P965 board there's not much reason to upgrade, but if you're buying a new board we would take a serious look at P35 offerings.TA152H - Monday, May 21, 2007 - link
I was seriously considering getting one of these boards, but I wouldn't even think about it after your review. What the heck is going on with the power use???? The improvement in performance, to me, is a lot less noticeable than the damn noise you'll have trying to evacuate the heat from the motherboard. What a disappointment. The interesting thing is, another site that ran the power use came in lower than the P965, so I'm really confused which is right. My gut instinct is, they are, because this is a 90nm chip with lower specified power use, but I'm sure you guys knew that and were just as confused and made sure your results were correct. I don't get it at all. It's really disappointing, but maybe with future revisions Intel will get the power down to normal levels.I now think supporting DDR2 was a mistake, sure it's good today, but prices for DDR3 will come down, and they would come down fast if Intel made it only DDR3 since memory makers would be very motivated to get their act together. Plus, you'd pay LESS for the chipset, and you'd pay less in electricity for it, and you'd pay less for the motherboards since they wouldn't need as extravagant a cooling solution on it (although, I may buy a MSI just to have that roller coaster. I'm not sure why they felt that design was necessary, but I feel like I need it now. ). So, sure, the cost right now of DDR3 would offset it, but that point will be crossed, and for the rest of the life of the chipset, people will be paying for something that is completely unnecessary and useless, which DDR2 support will be. The P965 would have been fine for legacy support, you don't NEED a P35, and for those folks that wanted it, DDR3 would be fine. Maybe the X38 will drop the dreaded DDR2 support since it's a high-end solution and doesn't need to be shackled with DDR2 support. I hope so.