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  • prophet001 - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    If that 1060 isn't starved for cooling, I'll eat my hat.
  • denis.lafronde - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    It's not, it's written in the review. So how's your hat? Taste good?
  • DanNeely - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    The 1060 should be crushing the 1050 in the Dell XPS by 2:1. It does so in a few benchmarks; but falls short in enough (actually scoring less than the XPS in a few) that it's being bottlenecked by something badly in some cases.
  • skavi - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    that's the CPU bottleneck. they're comparing the XPS 15's 45 watt CPU to the Book's 15 watt one.
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    As Skavi said this is the CPU bottleneck compared to the i7-7700HQ. Only falls short on tests where the settings are low enough that the GPU is no longer the bottleneck.
  • tyaty1 - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    It starves badly. When the GPU usage is high enough, the GPU performance drops below of the 1050's because of thermal throttling.
  • tipoo - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Where was this? I saw one nearly horizontal GPU clock bar
  • skavi - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I'm not sure tyaty1 read the same review.
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    You've got it backwards. It falls below the 1050 only when the CPU is the limiting factor because the game settings are low enough that the GPU is no longer the bottleneck and the i7-7700HQ outperforms the 15W CPU in the SB2. It's not a power issue.
  • prophet001 - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Well it's power starving so it doesn't thermally starve. I make my hats out of chocolate so they taste pretty good.
  • tipoo - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Looks like it's more starved for power delivery, while the cooling has some headroom.
  • Alexvrb - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Start chewing. :P
  • Gunbuster - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Can you test if there is still a performance hit on 2.4 GHz WiFi if using Bluetooth?
  • denis.lafronde - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I had a Surface Pro 2 and a bluetooth mouse was unusable when using 2.4ghx wifi. Just a big lag. Hope this is fixed now.
  • WorldWithoutMadness - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Try different wifi channel, most likely your BT and wifi channel interference with each other
  • mkozakewich - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I've been using the Surface Pro 1 and now a Surface Book 2, exclusively on 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi, and I haven't noticed any issues with Bluetooth. It's likely a problem with only some devices, in which case his test unit is probably also working fine..
  • Alistair - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Make a Surface laptop with a GTX 1050 and I'm sold!
  • jsntech - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    +1
  • tipoo - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Surface Book 13?
  • Morawka - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Just buy this one, it's already power clocked and you can downclock even further to match a 1050. The price difference wouldn't be but $100 if Microsoft offered it.
  • PeachNCream - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    It's a nice laptop, but the limited configuration options leave me a little miffed. I wouldn't have a use for the 1060 or 1050, but there's only one stripped down 13.3 inch model without the dGPU. It's limited to 8GB of RAM and 256GB of storage. That means that if I want 16GB and 1TB, I basically have to buy two and then switch the keyboard bases around between them if that would even work. Then I guess I could resell the unused parts, but it's a lot of pain to get the RAM and storage I'd want without the dGPU and I still wouldn't be able to get the 15 inch model. *sad panda*
  • damianrobertjones - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link

    ...Or just buy the one with the 1050?? No-one on earth would buy two, to do what you've suggested.
  • remosito - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    In my book no thunderbolt 3 instantly disqualifies for usage of expressions like "the charm"!!!
  • aznchum - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    My conspiracy theory about the lack of thunderbolt 3 on the Suface Book 2 is probably to add viability to the 15" model. With thunderbolt 3 eGPU docks fairly widespread now, why would anyone pay extra for the 15" model? Lower pixel density without much additional real estate, half a pound heavier, and more expensive to boot.
  • damianrobertjones - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Isn't it something to do with the available pcie lanes, offered by the cpu, with the lanes mainly being used for the dock? Hence no TB3 with blah blah.
  • HStewart - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Lack of Thunderbolt 3 for such an experience is shameless, but Microsoft has always been slow to act. Dell on the other hand has kept up.
  • FatalError - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Brett is there a chance to add benchmark results from the Surface Book with Performance Base that is using a 965m dgpu? It would be interesting to see how much difference there is between the 1050 and 965m - certainly at the current discounts the performance base might be the more attractive version for many users.
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Sorry we requested a sample of the Performance Base model but were not able to secure one. No laptop we ever tested had the GTX 965M.

    Here's a comparison with the GTX 970M though and the SB2 trounces it:
    https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1413?vs=20...
  • schizoide - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I don't accept compromises on such an expensive premium product. I'd need at least 500GB of storage so that's $2900 for a computer without thunderbolt3. In 2018.
  • erwos - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I am a huge Surface fanboy, but even I've got to say that Microsoft's refusal to jump on the USB-C/TB3 bandwagon is inexplicable at this point. The Surface Connector never took off, this isn't an Apple situation where licensing is making them enough money to make it a hard choice. The SB2 should have had four USB-C/TB3/DP/charging ports, like the MBP. Or, if they just have to retain the Surface Connector, three of them.
  • eddman - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    The term you are looking for is "fan".

    "Fanboy" basically means "a fan of something that completely lacks logic and reason and becomes aggressive while defending it".

    P.S. IMO even the word "fan" is undesirable. It's the short for "fanatic".
  • tyaty1 - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    In modern language , fan and fanatic are became distinct words.
  • HStewart - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    In my opinion "fanboy" is typically a term that is on tech website often in an attempt to discredit someone who has different - this I found mostly used by people that like AMD products and hate Intel. Most Intel people pretty much ignore technical sites - except if they are gamers.

    I am not an Intel "Fanboy" but I do support Intel - and why is simple, I have a long history of using there products and for graphics had a bad history with Ati GPU's - which is now part of AMD. i also believe that when a company creates a product you should buy from one's that created it.

    But things to change - I used to pro-Microsoft almost Fanboy and refused used Android, but I have great success with Samsung Tab S series ( both an S and now S3 ) and I also have Surface like Samsung TabPro S series.

    I serious doubt in my lifetime I will support AMD - it really kind of technical thing - I was highly into CPU internals at my first job and my experience with AMD and ATI maybe me not trust them. But I would state - that a lot of this influence by AMD Fanboys ( not supporter ) on the Internet who seem to attack Intel users every where they go.
  • HStewart - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    One note like everything else on Internet, this is my opinion. For example you could Intel for AMD and ATI/AMD for NVidia and all except the line about who created - have a totally different point of view
  • Reflex - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Odd that your issue with AMD would be due to technical experience. I worked on the Windows kernel for a number of years and during that time AMD developed both the Athlon and Athlon64/Opteron line. It was the technical perspective that brought me and so many other engineers towards AMD, they understood good architecture while Intel understood good marketing. Dave Cutler famously embraced AMD64 when it became clear to him what a mess IA64 was.

    That isn't to besmirch Intel as an engineering company. They got religion when Netburst hit its wall at only 40% of its design specification. But for Intel the limiting factor has long been marketing and management, for AMD it has always been resources. The latter reasons I respect a lot more than the former.

    I've used both extensively. Currently I have a pure Intel setup across my devices (well, ARM in my phone). But I'd happily build a Ryzen based system and having read many of the technical docs around it, its a fantastic engineering achievement.
  • Reflex - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I've pointed this out repeatedly, but TB support is a non-starter for a corporate focused laptop. It is considered a security risk as it is a direct line to the PCIe bus and can be used to easily bypass Bitlocker and other security measures. Devices with TB on them are almost never permitted for government or sensitive corporate sales.

    There also really isn't much demand, while I'd like to see more USB-C if only for future compatibility, to date only my phone actually uses it (and most connectors use standard USB on the other end) and eGPU or external storage simply aren't rational for a system based on a 15W CPU. The available 1060 already is bottlenecked by that CPU so I'm not certain what an eGPU would gain you (or really fast storage vs just having it on the network).

    I feel like a lot of the 'must haves' you read in these comments are theoretical rather than practical. People want to believe they have certain capabilities and expect the hardware to support the scenario yet in the real world it would almost never be used and arguably be non-sensical if they did.
  • damianrobertjones - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Shhhhh! Stop it... you're making sense!
  • Icehawk - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    TB3 is like firewire, nobody uses it except for a few use cases. I’d much prefer a dp/mini dp port for ease of connecting to monitors. Mind you I am coming from a corporate pov here.
  • jabber - Saturday, December 23, 2017 - link

    Yeah I'm looking around at all the Thunderbolt devices...I don't and probably never will have.
  • KPOM - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link

    Even if they are concerned about TB3, they should at least have a USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 port.
  • Daniel Egger - Tuesday, January 2, 2018 - link

    Then make the functions switchable in the BIOS.

    The reality (after taking off the corporate tinfoil hat) is: If you have physical access to a device, you can take it over -- TB or not.
  • id4andrei - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Maybe Windows telemetry makes MS comfortable in avoiding TB. Pushing people towards their standardized dock is also a plausible reason. A USB-C/TB charging standard is not something "must have" in the real world. In the case of the Surface Studio it's also about dictating a use case.

    Also, Ryzen and ARM laptops are starting to emerge. TB is essentially an Intel proprietary solution. Would lack of TB on those be considered downsides?
  • HStewart - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Thunderbolt is an open standard you can not blame Intel on this - Ryzen and ARM are minimum impact on laptop business

    Microsoft is just slow to going to standards - it took them forever to get USB-C Thunderbolt 3 is just a superset of USB-C standard.
  • Reflex - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Thunderbolt is a proprietary Intel standard. It has high licensing fees and Intel has not opened it up or permitted third party implementations to this date. They have announced that they will do so for manufacturers (but not necessarily competing chip providers) in 2018. It also has a high cost to implement.

    More details here -

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/with-licen...
    https://www.bit-tech.net/news/tech/peripherals/int...
  • thunderboltComment - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Thunderbolt went royalty free in May.
    https://www.extremetech.com/computing/249902-thund...
  • thunderboltComment - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Ah, I see the second article now. Thanks
  • Reflex - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    I am going to be very curious if the new 'royalty free' status is available to all or only whom Intel deems worthy. Royalty free does not mean 'open', the IP owner can still determine who gets to use it. AMD could still be locked out, but we will see.
  • ddrіver - Saturday, December 23, 2017 - link

    TB may be open but only since this year. And manufacturing is still exclusively Intel until 2018. So check back next year.
  • damianrobertjones - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    "The Surface Connector never took off" - Did it have to take off?

    Isn't the lack of TB3 blah blah due to the pcie lanes being offered?
  • Frenetic Pony - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    And a better display. The newer Ipad pro has a 120hz HDR display for a third the cost of this thing. It's honestly what made me skip it despite the fact that my SP3 is really starting to creak and groan.
  • damianrobertjones - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Yes... because a 120hz HDR display is essential. Marketing OWNS your soul.

    The review already states that the screen is, more or less, amazing so adding those two extra features doesn't really do much.

    P.s. The iPad Pro, albeit nice, isn't really on the same league (imo).
  • Frenetic Pony - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    I have a 120hz desktop screen and is awesome. And I've been waiting on a proper her screen for photo and video editing. Being snide and ignorant gets you nowhere.
  • zogus - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    The iPad Pro's 120Hz display is really, really nice for smooth pen input. It is the first pen UI that didn't make me go back to paper and pencil after a few days.
    As for not being in the same league, no, of course it's not. I would argue that it doesn't even play in the same sport as the Surface Book.
  • edzieba - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Damn, that GPU just flat out embarrasses my 'old' Surface Book.
    Idon'tneedanewlaptopIdon'tneedanewlaptopIdon'tneedanewlaptopIdon'tneedanewlaptop...
  • tipoo - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    That GPU embarrasses the /new/ 15" rMBP top option.

    Wish for some Nvidia options in there.
  • bryanlarsen - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    This is certainly a much better compromise than the surface. I see lots of Surfaces, but I never see anybody using them in tablet mode. I don't understand why people put up with the Surface's crappy laptop experience when they only rarely use it in tablet mode.

    The best form factor for most is the Yoga and its clones, IMO. Not a great tablet experience, but it's there, usable and useful, without any compromises on the laptop experience. Optimize for the 99%.
  • denis.lafronde - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Well, maybe that's because you don't follow those people everywhere :P. I was using my SP3 in tablet mode at my hold job, but now I'm still using it in tablet at home, for watching videos or surfing the internet. It's much less cumbersome than others 2-in-1 when you move it around the house and don't really need a keyboard. If someone needs a laptop, just buy a laptop (or a something like the Yoga), but there is still a lot of people who want a productivity tablet with the occasional keyboards sessions. And the type cover is not THAT bad. Lots of entry level laptops have way worst keyboards.
  • PeachNCream - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    The reality is that Windows as an OS and the workload we expect it to perform is still keyboard-centric. People with a Windows tablet end up using some sort of keyboard for a significant portion of their time. Maybe it would make more sense to have a Surface Book or some other convertible computer, but people usually buy things with their hearts first and their minds second. They then justify the thing they bought by changing how they work or citing corner cases. That's just part of what it means to be a human.
  • mkozakewich - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I like to point out that the Surface Pro is *always* in tablet mode. It's a laptop-like tablet where the keyboard is an accessory. More compromise, but it is what it is. The Surface Book, on the other hand, is a convertible laptop. You have to consciously convert it from one mode to the other.
  • damianrobertjones - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    I typed an entire novel, 68,000 words, on a Surface Pro 3 while travelling around Europe. No issues with it sitting on my lap.
  • Peskarik - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    One BIG problem with all these contemporary thin machines is the built-in battery.
    First of all, the full charge capacity is always lower than the announced capacity (battery is like a human, ages right from the birth).
    Secondly, battery looses capacity over the charging cycles, especially if one does 0-100% charges.
    So, a year from purchase one does not have 85Wh anymore, most likely having lost 20% of that. And what do you do then? Replacing the battery, if even possible, is very expensive outlay (I suppose, I haven't done it yet, but only because I still use Thinkpad with fully replaceable battery).
  • zepi - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Ageing of batteries is usually overblown if they are managed properly.

    For example my wife has a 3 years old Macbook Pro with close to 800 cycles on the battery and it still holds 85% of the original charge. Obviously there is degradation, but her usage is super hard, doing 100 to 0% deep discharges day in day out etc, despite my warnings that this is bad for the battery. This more or less aligns with my own experiences with other "unibody" Macbook Pro's that I've used over the years.

    Despite having used macs with integrated batteries for about 10 years, I've never experienced one losing so much battery degradation that I would have even considered replacing a battery, with my wife's example being the worst.

    Are PC laptops considerably worse in this regards? Normally 1000 cycles loses at most 20% of battery life and for modern laptops that is from 10h to 8 hours, which I don't think is such a disaster.
  • mkozakewich - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I just ran a battery report, and my Surface Book 2 has got 109% battery health.
    Good companies know things will degrade a little, and they deal with it in a multitude of ways. My original Surface Pro still has about 80% of its battery after five years, and I expect the same from this.

    Also, I get through a ten-hour day with nearly half my charge left, so I'll be perfectly fine with 20% less.
  • lucam - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    When the IPad Pro 2 review? .if is still part of your plans? Or will you wait till April by the time we gonna get the IPad Pro 2018?
  • Ryan Smith - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    It's not on the schedule at this time.
  • amdwilliam1985 - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Here's a review for the iPad Pro 2.
    Best iPad [Pro] ever, buy it!
    Merry Christmas :)
  • lucam - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Thank you...suppose same for iPhone X...merry xmas to you too..😁
  • id4andrei - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Nope. The iphone X is starting to throttle down performance from the moment you buy it so it's a flawed device.
  • lucam - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    must be the reason why it hasn't been reviewed (here)...too hard to admit that...
  • akdj - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    I’m completely with you lucam, 100%.
    Out of boredom, I read this one. We’re still ‘owed’ an A10 ‘deep dive’, haven’t seen a word on the updated (2 yrs ago) MacBook Pro, Apple Watch, iPhone or iPad.
    Far cry from the ATech of old. I’m rarely here any more, all MoBo & power supply reviews makes for an extremely dull website to Ars veee go
  • Azune - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    What i'd like to know is whether the screen will get yellow spots again if the tablet portion is used too much for writing.

    Since my SB Gen 1 + my replacement both had that problem after a few months.
  • mkozakewich - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    You don't need as much pressure on the pen, so I'd recommend just setting it as soft as possible and using it lightly. Most people press really hard on the screen, and that's always problematic. I remember seeing iPhone display models at mobile kiosks, and the screens would ripple under my touch because they'd sustained so much force.
  • Azune - Saturday, December 23, 2017 - link

    The part of the screen that i'm writing on is perfectly fine. The edges on the screen, where i am resting my hand, are the problem. Personally i think that the screen isn't reinforced properly for long term writing, to keep the weight of the screen lower.

    I don't know how to fix that, but personally i think its isn't acceptable for a 1500$+ device to break with its intended usecase after only a few months.
  • Da W - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Been looking at Surface Pro stats in the charts and its a very potent tablet indeed, even compared to this monster of a notebook.
  • djayjp - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Beware:

    "Despite the power supply replacement, I was still able to get the Surface Book 2 to drain battery even when connected to the wall."

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platf...
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I went over this several times in the review.
  • anactoraaron - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    "Our review unit was equipped with a Samsung PM961...." while retail units will be equipped with an inferior toshiba ssd :P
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    That was slightly different, and while component swapping happens, it was the Toshiba SSD that was a faster MLC one in some of the early units. This is a TLC drive but Samsung has gotten very good with TLC in the last couple of years.
  • anactoraaron - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I would have liked to see a thermal report using something that maxed cpu usage, instead of what was presented. Your Rise of the Tomb Raider graph is great for evaluating the gpu temps and cooling performance for gaming.

    What about tasks that professionals use that max CPU usage? When the cpu on my 1st surface book was maxed (converting color checked raw images to jpg) the fan was very loud and the processor reached 96c (as reported by Intel XTU). That right there made me pack it up immediately and return it.

    If you have a decice aimed at professionals who need and will fully use the calibrated display and don't have a way to properly cool various use cases that professionals may need you have an even more niche product.

    What was most disappointing about the SB1 was that the fan even at 100% didn't seem to move any air anywhere! Cpu at 100% and 96c and I couldn't feel any air moving in or out across the entire tablet section. What was the fan doing? Just adding noise?

    If I buy a product like this, for professional use, at this price point, longevity being cut short due to exdended high temps cannot be acceptable.

    Any chance you can test the cpu cooling ability doing a demanding task for only the cpu? Preferably something that will max all cores 90-100% sustained?
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Hi. Yes I just ran Handbrake doing a CPU encode for 30 minutes. In best performance, the device will allow up to 20W on the CPU sustained which leads to temps around 95°C. It peaks at 100 which is the max for the chip right when the task starts since the PL allows up to 30W of power initially.

    It never goes over 100 though but if you were very concerned about that, you can leave it in Best Battery Life mode and the temp never exceeds the 60s even at a full 15W sustained load.

    Over the weekend I'll try to add a chart showing this.
  • edgineer - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    >the lack of Thunderbolt 3 deprives the owner of the ability to output dual UHD video feeds

    Wait, are you sure Thunderbolt 3 is the actual reason for that? MS' support site says only one UHD@60Hz output is possible, sure.

    But when the XPS 15's only-2-PCIe-lanes brewhaha happened, reviewers explained that the DisplayPort-alternate mode bandwidth is NOT affected by Thunderbolt 3. Only eGPU capability is changed by TB3 status, and not external display capability. Or is it not?

    The only other clues I have are that MS' support says external display capability is limited by the CPU. Intel's ARK page for the 8650u lists basically the exact DP capabilities that MS gave, except that the chip should support 3 displays, and the caveat "Please check with the system vendor to determine if your system delivers this feature." This makes me think that the limitation lies with the specific (lack of) implementation of CPU capabilities, and that having the TB3 chip installed doesn't change this.
  • Reflex - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Your analysis is correct, TB is just another alternate mode for USB-C and does not impact the number of displays supported. There is something else going on there.
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    That's not the case at all. DisplayPort only has enough bandwidth for a single UHD feed at 60 FPS. You can't drive 2 UHD monitors on USB-C without the extra bandwidth provided by Thunderbolt 3.
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I guess I also need to point out USB-C video mode only supports a single DisplayPort 1.2 (usually - other specs can work on short cables) which is why you can only get 1 UHD at 60 Hz with no compression.
  • Reflex - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Thanks for the correction I was not aware of that.
  • imaheadcase - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    For the price points they are at, i cant help but think the screen is %99 of the cost of this thing, Not he GPU
  • Galcobar - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    If power consumption is a concern, then there's a conundrum: is it better to have an older (6th or 7th gen) processor paired with DDR3L, or an 8th gen processor paired with DDR4?

    Assume same processor TDP across generations.
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    If power consumption is a concern then the best option is LPDDR3 at the moment on the PC side.
  • Galcobar - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Thank you for the prompt reply.
    I've become the person in the office people consult when buying their new laptops, and I've noticed the available configurations now span the seventh and eighth gen Intel Cores. Since we don't run anything that really stresses the CPU, the extra cores of the 8th gen are interesting only if they improve efficiency. If the reduction in activity gains less battery life than the switch from LPDDR3 to DDR4 costs, I'll keep advising people to go with the 7th gen options.
  • Galcobar - Saturday, December 23, 2017 - link

    Just came across - or re-discovered - the 2015 article on the 6th gen processors https://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-...
    It states that DDR4 runs at 1.2V or 1.5V.
    That would make it more efficient than LPDDR3's 1.35/1.5V, would it not?
  • manurk112 - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Hey Brett, did you notice any significant coil whine? I bought the 13 inch, and on best performance mode you can hear it distinctly. Most of other reviews mentionned it, but you didn't. As for the lack of Thunderbolt, Is it not linked to limitations of the surface connector?
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    There's no coil whine at all on the unit I have but it's not the 13 so maybe it's specific to that one.

    Surface Connect doesn't impact Thunderbolt 3 since it's the USB-C port next to it that would need the ICs for the extra bandwidth.
  • manurk112 - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Be damned.... probably means that I should better return the unit I have and wait that they have sorted the issue out on latter batches. Thanks for the heads up, and the test, which is great as usual
  • quiksilvr - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    Why don't you guys show the display analysis results of Macbook Pro's alongside the PCs? I'm curious as to how they stack up.
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    We haven't tested one recently but here's a comparison with the 2014 rMBP
    https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2056?vs=13...
  • StanFL - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link

    I own one (13.5" with i7 and GTX 1050) and absolutely love it. Used to have a Surface Pro 3 and this is better in so many different ways I wouldn't really know where to start.
  • Notmyusualid - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Very nice.

    Can I have this in a 20" screen and dual GPUs please? I don't care much for the tablet function, but I do like high-res screens, and well constructed devices...
  • eddman - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    Was cinebench run once or in a loop? I want to know the sustained frequency after a few minutes.
  • Brett Howse - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    My script runs it 12 times total.

    Average CPU frequency after 20 minutes of Handbrake was 2538.5 MHz if that helps.
  • eddman - Saturday, December 23, 2017 - link

    Thanks; so that 629 score was the highest recorded or the last reading?
  • Brett Howse - Saturday, December 23, 2017 - link

    If one of the scores is an outlier we throw it out and take the highest of the rest.
  • binary dissonance - Friday, December 22, 2017 - link

    I wonder if the reason an external thunderbolt isn't offered is that they decided to use that to interface with the GPU in the keyboard. (Or surface connect uses enough PCIE lanes that offering thunderbolt isn't an option.) A PCIe bottleneck might limit 1060 GPU performance along with power throttling.
  • Speednet - Saturday, December 23, 2017 - link

    I believe much a the reasoning is because of the connection between the tablet and the main unit. I read a while back that it uses PCI lanes that otherwise would go to the TB3 connection.
  • Speednet - Saturday, December 23, 2017 - link

    I upgraded from SB1 to SB2 (15", 1TB) when they first came out, so I've had some time to live with the new model. And it is a fantastic machine! I do mainly development (coding) and graphics work, and it is just perfect for both of those activities. The 15" screen with 3:2 aspect ratio is so good that I would not even consider a standard 16:9 ratio screen at this point. It is a non-starter.

    Unlike what many people have said in reviews -- that the tablet part is "too big" -- I disagree. It is perfect for browsing the web or catching up on news feeds while lounging. On a small tablet my news reader feels cramped, but on the 15" screen I get all my sidebars and big reading area. (I use Nextgen Reader.)

    My existing Surface Dock worked perfectly with the SB2.

    I see some people go on & on about the lack of TB3, but I personally have no use for it at all. I suppose it would a great to have, just to say it's there in case I need it for some reason, but the reality is that I don't. With all the computer equipment I have, I don't think I have even a single TB3 device. It's a total non-issue.

    I was glad to see this review give the heavy gaming/battery issue just about the right amount of weight. It's something to be aware of, but is something that most people will never experience in their lifetime of ownership. The Verge, on the other hand, acted as if the sky were falling.

    Who would have guessed 10 years ago that Microsoft would be making the industry's best computer hardware?
  • grant3 - Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - link

    My existing Surface Dock worked perfectly with the SB2.

    I see some people go on & on about the lack of TB3, but I personally have no use for it at all. I suppose it would a great to have, just to say it's there in case I need it for some reason, but the reality is that I don't. With all the computer equipment I have, I don't think I have even a single TB3 device. It's a total non-issue.


    As you said: "I have an existing dock" which doesn't apply to the rest of us unwashed masses who don't already own a surface.

    Maybe we have an existing tbolt dock we use with our Dell. Or maybe we want to get a dock which we hope to reuse with our next laptop without locking into the "Surface" ecosystem. Or maybe we just like the aesthetics of keeping a single USB cord out on the desk instead of a boxy dock.

    We're about 2.5 years into the life of tbolt-over-usb-C as an industry standard, and *STILL* Microsoft can't get its act together to offer it on their flagship product? Common now, that's just ridiculous. Totally inexcusable.
  • damianrobertjones - Thursday, October 11, 2018 - link

    ...and still we have mega-cheap docks that suck and often break. Let alone the cable lottery from Amazon.
  • Lolimaster - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    You should thank AMD that made dual cores obsolete with the arrival of Ryzen. Now get a Threaripper.
  • prateekprakash - Monday, December 25, 2017 - link

    Hi,
    I was wondering, could one play uhd Netflix on this device, or does it have lower res than 3840 so it would not meet the uhd specs?
  • milkod2001 - Thursday, December 28, 2017 - link

    On such small screen you will never notice so yeah, it would play 4k videos just fine
  • sonicmerlin - Monday, December 25, 2017 - link

    Why don't they just make a GPU base for the Surface Pro...?
  • gentryfunk22 - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link

    My partner just received this device as her main laptop at work. The Surface 2 replaced a MacBook Air. Her main complaint is the trackpad. It is terrible. Does not track well, the hotspots work inconsistently, and clicks are not recognized. Use as a tablet drains the battery much faster than is found in this article...in fact, during a conference call last week, she got about 90 minutes of use from full charge in tablet mode. FYI
  • ajay92 - Monday, January 1, 2018 - link

    Seems like it will get too hot too fast
  • YaronGo - Monday, January 15, 2018 - link

    Buyer beware: System stability is a big issue with Gen1. Does Gen2 solve this?

    I bought the first generation the month it came out, and to date it is suffering from instability (not as many daily BSODs thank god - the first year was a nightmare!). WiFi doesn't connect to all networks, sometimes requiring reboot. Sometimes it goes into tablet mode thinking it's in that mode and not letting you use the keyboard/mouse, and that's just two I have issues with daily. Then there's battery drain (3 hours some days) and problems going into hibernation (yeah, it's fun to lose all your work!).

    I'd be very wary of buying an expensive laptop like this. Wait till you get some reviews after 3 months of daily use. Check out Gen1 reviews/forums for reference.
  • damianrobertjones - Thursday, October 11, 2018 - link

    ...and the biggest question is: Why didn't you get it replaced? We have 3 SBooks in work. So far all have been fine.
  • Timur Born - Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - link

    All USB ports are still connected to a subpar Genesys Logic USB hub chipset instead of being directly connected to the Intel chipset. This was a problem with version 1 and remains to be a problem with version 2. It's a slightly improved new chipset, though. Still an unnecessary solution, only meant to lower production cost instead of improving user experience.
  • damianrobertjones - Thursday, October 11, 2018 - link

    ...and the general user experience will be the same as no-one will notice.
  • Chris_outwright - Thursday, April 12, 2018 - link

    Cinebench R15 and with SB2 15" you get over 600 or 700 Points. This is Bull S*. I got between 500-600. Either your device is rigged or you got absolutely the best out of the Silicon Lottery, and I the worst!
  • winndzn02 - Sunday, May 13, 2018 - link

    My surface book 2 15 is only getting 5000-6000 firestrike test results. That is so much lower than what you are getting. Would you have any idea why this would be? Id love some help from anyone here!
  • WindowsXp16 - Tuesday, January 15, 2019 - link

    Brett Howse - Whats your max CPU temp. I recently got the 15" Surface Book 2 and my temps using cinebench reach up to 90 plus degrees Celsius. I am trying to figure out if this is normal so i can decide weather to exchange my unit or not

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