"the company is only evaluating the technology, but (as far as we know) does not invest in cleanrooms ready for EUV"
If you don't know, then why make a conclusion???
Is there any reason why the Hiroshima expansion or the new cleanroom in Taichung are not EUV-ready? It's just a height problem.
It would be worth noting that only Hynix is investing in EUV DRAM right now (and only a small portion of their future production). ASML hoped to get more EUV @1Z but Samsung is producing with DUV: https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-develops-i...
+Techinsights roadmaps are always wrong on timing. just look at their expected timing of previous nodes.
"Is there any reason why the Hiroshima expansion or the new cleanroom in Taichung are not EUV-ready? It's just a height problem"
193i scanners have most of their components located on the production floor but an EUV scanner also uses a significant amount of space in the "basement" to house the laser system needed by the EUV light source.
You don't need techinsights for LPDDR5 info. During the last earnings call they said: "On low-power DDR5, we are leading the industry and recently started sampling the highest-density die in the market."
The whole point is that you don't need to use 3DS LRDIMMs anymore, you can just use 3DS RDIMMs which are much cheaper. Just because the CPU supports LRDIMMs doesnt mean it needs to be LRDIMMs.
>Keeping in mind that 32 GB UDIMMs and 64 GB RDIMMs (based on 16 Gb DRAMs) are pretty rate
Rare*
>At the current pace of one new node per ~12 months, Micron’s multi patterning technology roadmap extends to at least 2023 (I am speculating here!)
It ia very good guess anyway. All ASML EUV capacity are booked all the way to 2020. And I don't see how the situation will improve when TSMC, Samsung are all competing, and that is not even including Intel. So I would not be surprise if everything up to 2021/2022 is fully booked as well.
@Anton you guys have used that picture for the main article picture of a few articles but I'm still in the dark as to what is going on in it. Something with 4 probes almost to a die and what looks like a concentrated beam of light. Thanks!
Given the massive costs and risks involved in making these high end electronics and also given that we're past the point of exponential performance returns as far as silicon performance is involved, I feel like all this competition along the same road (EUV->lesser nm) is a race to the bottom and there will be some rude shocks when companies can't get decent prices for their high-end goods.
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23 Comments
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Jansen - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
Micron is producing 3200MHz DDR4 unbuffered ECC DIMMs for the new Ryzen chips. Wonder which process generation its using.https://www.micron.com/products/dram-modules/vlp-u...
Jansen - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
Fixed link:https://www.micron.com/products/dram-modules/vlp-u...
brakdoo - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
"the company is only evaluating the technology, but (as far as we know) does not invest in cleanrooms ready for EUV"If you don't know, then why make a conclusion???
Is there any reason why the Hiroshima expansion or the new cleanroom in Taichung are not EUV-ready? It's just a height problem.
It would be worth noting that only Hynix is investing in EUV DRAM right now (and only a small portion of their future production). ASML hoped to get more EUV @1Z but Samsung is producing with DUV: https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-develops-i...
+Techinsights roadmaps are always wrong on timing. just look at their expected timing of previous nodes.
brakdoo - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
Ok this wasn't intended as a replyArsenica - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
"Is there any reason why the Hiroshima expansion or the new cleanroom in Taichung are not EUV-ready? It's just a height problem"193i scanners have most of their components located on the production floor but an EUV scanner also uses a significant amount of space in the "basement" to house the laser system needed by the EUV light source.
brakdoo - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
Yeah, just a height problem...Jansen - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
More of a depth problem lol. Way easier to add height than to add depth.brakdoo - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
There is nothing to add if they are building new Fabs anyway.brakdoo - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
That's a link to a very low profile module.But in general, they have 3200 mhz 1y modules out now, but 1x too...
Jansen - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
Looks like Micron is only going VLP for 3200MHz ECC unbuffered DIMMs, which makes sense as the premium is negligible and it enables them to cut SKUs.These would be the fastest ECC RAM for Ryzen and ThreadRipper workstations, typically using 64-128GB. Haven't seen anything similar from Samsung yet.
brakdoo - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
You don't need techinsights for LPDDR5 info.During the last earnings call they said: "On low-power DDR5, we are leading the industry and recently started sampling the highest-density die in the market."
nandnandnand - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
64 GB RDIMMs?https://www.anandtech.com/show/13500/samsung-shows...
brakdoo - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
That's Load Reduced DIMM. The 128/256 GB LR DIMMs have all pins buffered, not just address and clock signals(RDIMM).LR DIMMs are much more expensive, while RDIMMs are just slightly more expensive than unbuffered ECC DIMMs.
Jansen - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
The article he is linking to specifically refers to RDIMMs, not LRDIMMs.brakdoo - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
That's just BS Anton made up. 3DS RAM is always LR...brakdoo - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
To be clear, look at page 19 to see how the bottom die acts as buffer https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/global.semi....You can't just put these DIMMs in any MB. You need CPUs that support 3DS DIMMs(Same CPUs that support LRDIMMs)
brakdoo - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
price: 3DS > LR > RDIMM > ECC UDIMM > non-ECC UDIMMJansen - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
Are you sure its on page 19?The 3DS in the link is specifically a RDIMM:
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/dram/module/...
Jansen - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13500/samsung-shows...The whole point is that you don't need to use 3DS LRDIMMs anymore, you can just use 3DS RDIMMs which are much cheaper. Just because the CPU supports LRDIMMs doesnt mean it needs to be LRDIMMs.
ksec - Saturday, June 29, 2019 - link
>Keeping in mind that 32 GB UDIMMs and 64 GB RDIMMs (based on 16 Gb DRAMs) are pretty rateRare*
>At the current pace of one new node per ~12 months, Micron’s multi patterning technology roadmap extends to at least 2023 (I am speculating here!)
It ia very good guess anyway. All ASML EUV capacity are booked all the way to 2020. And I don't see how the situation will improve when TSMC, Samsung are all competing, and that is not even including Intel. So I would not be surprise if everything up to 2021/2022 is fully booked as well.
And no mention of TSV 3D DRAM?
ballsystemlord - Monday, July 1, 2019 - link
@Anton you guys have used that picture for the main article picture of a few articles but I'm still in the dark as to what is going on in it. Something with 4 probes almost to a die and what looks like a concentrated beam of light.Thanks!
ads295 - Saturday, July 6, 2019 - link
Given the massive costs and risks involved in making these high end electronics and also given that we're past the point of exponential performance returns as far as silicon performance is involved, I feel like all this competition along the same road (EUV->lesser nm) is a race to the bottom and there will be some rude shocks when companies can't get decent prices for their high-end goods.gemini38 - Friday, August 16, 2019 - link
How about 32GB DDR4 SoDIMM modules? Is Micron also planning to produce these as part of its new DRAM process?