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  • trivik12 - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    icelake laptops were in stores by last September fairly quickly after launch. Infact I saw more icelake laptops than comet lake at Costco. I bought a cheap laptop with icelake I5 for $280 and so volume was not an issue as well. We have already seen so many benchmarks from Tigerlake laptops and so many OEM's have already teased them and so I am expecting to see laptops in store/online next month.
  • neuen - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    Before shilling for Intel, one could have at least checked how much the cheapest Icelake i5 costs.
  • clemsyn - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    He is not shilling, I saw one of these HP laptop at Costco. It was advertised as an i3 but was actually an i5. There was also one from Walmart (Dell) that my son bought and was surprised it was an i5.
  • milkywayer - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    These xLake names are so confusing. Wish they'd just stick with simple incrementing numeric series like they did. 2700k, 3700k etc. Ofc these greedy c*** gobblers had to milk the market more and came out with i9 and soon an i11 - if jt weren't for AMD.
  • x064 - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    ... they still do?
  • xenol - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    They still are.

    The average joe doesn't know what an "Ice Lake" or "Coffee Lake" is anyway.
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    So there was literally one laptop - which you're making claims about but not linking to - that cost this much as a one-off? Cool story bro.
  • Santoval - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    One "cheap laptop" says the first one. One "HP laptop" says the second one. Neither say any specifics.
  • trivik12 - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    I had bought a laptop last year. Deal had listed i3 but I had got i5 and updated to 16GB Ram and 512 GB NVME SSD for under $400.

    https://slickdeals.net/f/13524451-costco-members-h...
  • Santoval - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    The Core i3-1005G1 listed in that link is a 2-core CPU. It's supposedly Ice Lake but it has just 2 cores and it has a very low base clock frequency, so any AMD 4000 series APU with 4+ cores would decimate it. Therefore it's barely an Ice Lake, largely in name actually. What's the i5 CPU you got instead? Is it Ice Lake? Which part exactly? You keep withholding specifics..
  • Santoval - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    p.s. I found it myself. According to a buyer it has the Core i5-1035G4 which is a 4-core Ice Lake. The buyer speculates that the reason of offering an i5 instead of that i3 might be due to low availability of Ice Lake 2-core i3s, since the price points to having an i3.
    Since that's the case then this was an amazing, perhaps one-of-a-kind offer - though I'm sure HP cut corners from everything they could to turn a profit; monitor (despite being an IPS), build quality and materials, trackpad, you name it. trivik12 I'm sorry about suggesting you might be an Intel shiller..
  • Santoval - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    p.s.2 You were also lucky. According to the same buyer the later shipments of this laptop usually had an i3 CPU. So unless you went to the shop to check which CPU it has if you ordered online it was like a lottery between the i5 and the i3.
  • trivik12 - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    if you go into the slickdeals thread many folks got the i5. it was not a lottery. it was not one of YMMV deals. As another poster said even a walmart deal came with i5 despite listing mentioning i3.

    You could be right about the shortage of i3 parts.
  • trivik12 - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    As I said it was listed as 1005G1 but I got i5-1035-G4. That has 4 cores/8 thread. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/produc...
  • ikjadoon - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    There are very cheap Ice Lake laptops, actually. That $280 deal was quite famous, actually, at Costco. I was genuinely surprised at some deals, but it's quite common, especially for the i5-1035G1 SKU.

    https://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?src=SearchBar...

    Most are under $600 and a few under $430 and that golden deal at $280.

    I once had to buy a Pentium laptop for $250; people getting Ice Lake i5's for $30 more is a bloody steal.
  • trivik12 - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    That $280 laptop came with 1035-G4. So not just CPU but even GPU was not bad. It was really good for the price with IPS Screen(not so good IPS screen). I am sure bulk rates charged to OEM's are lower. Especially post ryzen laptops in the market. I am expecting Tigerlake to be available at good price as well(may be not at $280).
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    "Most are under $600" is a different claim from "I found a $280 laptop which means they must have had loads of volume". The i5-1035G1 is gimped with a severely cut-down GPU; if anything, your link here is proof that they could only get good volume by disabling large chunks of their processors.
  • ikjadoon - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    ....what kind of GPU do $600 thin-and-light laptops supposed to have? This is a silly level of goal post moving. The Iris Plus G4 is extremely capable: anybody would agree the HD600-series were anemic, but your argument has completely fallen through.

    Everyone gets good volume by disabling large chunks of their processors. Is AMD somehow selling 4800U volume? Not at all.

    It's like the YouTube comment section has flooded Anandtech.
  • brantron - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    Apples and oranges. Comet Lake U chips at the time were all rebadged Whiskey Lake, which were already ubiquitous. Ice Lake i3 and i5 are inexpensive because they're gimpy.

    The playing field has since changed and there's an all time record supply of AMD mobile CPUs.

    Tiger Lake fits best in the XPS 13 and Surface Pro end of things. Ice Lake SP is coming down the pipe at the same time, so 10nm isn't going to suddenly flood the market.

    Rocket Lake U can cover the rest.
  • ikjadoon - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    How is an i5 "gimpy"? That makes zero sense. They're 4C/8T with Iris Graphics. The i3 dual-core, gimped to hell. But the i5 is actually pretty respectable.

    There may be "record supply" of AMD mobile CPUs, but extremely few products in stock. That makes a consumer decision, unfortunately, easy.
  • brantron - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    Because the clocks were low and the GPUs were cut back enough that they didn't cover any new ground.

    Only the i7 stood out, and it took forever to turn up in places it belonged, like the Macbook Pro. Dell even launched a Comet Lake U XPS 13 first.
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    Shhh, the shills are rewriting history before our eyes and you're rudely interrupting their little circle jerk.
  • ikjadoon - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    ?... dozens of i7-1065G7 laptops were available in late 2019. You can barely find five different laptops with the 4800U in stock today in the US.

    The clocks were fine: again, nothing close to "gimped". What, is the 4800U "gimped" because of its poor GPU drivers?

    Enough hyperbole.
  • lmcd - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link

    The number of times my 2700U driver has been auto updated without its control panel updating to the same version is absolutely maddening. I won't be buying an AMD laptop for at least another generation.
  • PaulHoule - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    Iris "Graphics" was Intel's answer to Windows Vista. Let's make the graphics capability of a cheap PC worse than a phone because Intel can't stand that NVIDIA or ATI got any of the BoM for a PC.

    The mere existence of Iris held back the PC platform.
  • cjl - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    Iris didn't come out until 2013. Not only had 7 already replaced Vista by that point, 8 had already replaced 7 (8 came out in 2012).
  • TimSyd - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    You missed Paul's point totally & got the wrong end of the stick there mate. Metaphor - look it up ...
  • lmcd - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link

    That's not metaphor that's just misinformed and idiotic.
  • ikjadoon - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    ...I can't believe the level of comments today.

    Iris Plus was never a mainstream product until late 2019. How can it have been the answer to Windows Vista?
  • dotjaz - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    That makes perfect sense when you consider the fact 1035G7 can barely match 10310Y in spec, a 7W part. Its CPU is lagging behind 10210U let alone 10310U.
  • ikjadoon - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    "in spec" means what? The 10310Y has a far weaker GPU and a terribly inefficient 14nm++++ process to boost 4.1 GHz on a 7W chip (mind you, 4.1 GHz is PL2 and nowhere close to 7W).

    Single-core performance is absolutely more important in ultra-thin laptops. Y'all have gone down the deep end, claiming Comet Lake is genuinely better than Ice Lake for thin-and-light laptops.
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    1) 4C/8T doesn't look so hot now that you can get 6 or 8 more capable cores for the same price; it's literally the least they can do. Don't you find it funny that they were feeding us dual-core "i7" chips until AMD announced 15W Raven Ridge with 4C/8T?
    2) The GPUs are slashed to all hell on the i5 range. It's probably the only way they could make it yield well; the GPU is now one of the largest parts of the chip, and their 10nm process is brutal to their GPU designs as demonstrated by the abortive mess that was Cannon Lake.
  • ikjadoon - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    But, can you really get 6C/8C CPUs in any flagship laptops? AMD missed the boat again on supplying enough stock for Renoir. You can't buy what isn't available...

    Again, we're talking $600 laptops. What kind of GPU are you expecting? Please redirect me to the Renoir laptop for $280, $400, or even $600.

    I won't hold my breath.
  • lmcd - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link

    ROFL imagine listing Raven Ridge as what really got Intel worried. My 4 hr battery life salutes your genius!

    Funny how AMD's only volume parts are split into tiny, yield-friendly pieces -- where's Renoir desktop? TSMC's yields are good for smaller chips. Once Intel gets into the chiplet space AMD is screwed. TSMC's processes are all mobile optimized or GPU optimized -- Intel will be able to mix and match a high end process of their own with a mobile process on the same package. We'll see how long it takes for Intel to go chiplet but it'll be a pretty far swing back.
  • Peskarik - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    Dude, do you understand what happened here? You got a LAPTOP, chassis, screen, memory, storage, processor, keyboard, a full laptop, for 280 bucks. That means someone put it together and got paid peanuts. And here you are, collecting your 600 bucks a week benefit and sipping beer. The only thing gimpy here is your skull, no wonder, it has no brain.
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    1) They were supposed to be out by the first of August, so that's a solid month's delay between launch and availability even by your retelling. 😬 Availability was constrained to a few OEMs (and a few product lines per OEM) until the end of 2019.
    2) I'm so glad you relayed your personal anecdotes about Costco, they surely disprove whatever straw man you're beating on here.
    3) The claimed existence of one $280 laptop does not mean "volume was not an issue". *Gestures to the continued proliferation of new devices with 8th, 9th and 10th gen 14nm processors*.
  • Santoval - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    "I bought a cheap laptop with icelake I5 for $280 and so volume was not an issue as well."
    No way, that's impossible. Both that price of the "cheap laptop" you do not name (which brand and model is it?) and the groundless suggestion about high volume are pure BS. So you are merely trolling - or poorly shilling for Intel.
  • ikjadoon - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    I pity your bank account if you don't know how to use Slickdeals in 2020.

    https://slickdeals.net/f/13524451-costco-members-h...

    "That's impossible." All right, santoval: please move your goalposts so we may all throw our heads back in laughter.

    Of course Ice Lake ramped slowly, but if you genuinely believed the $280 Ice Lake laptop was a fake, boy...do I know exactly what kind of YouTube videos you watch. :D

    Please redirect us all to the $280 Renoir laptop sales & deals. Or the flagship ultra-thin-and-lights with Renoir? Any XPS 13? Any Spectre x360? A Surface Book 2 perhaps?
  • lmcd - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link

    Eh cut him a break, this was the first year AMD's mobile offering wasn't a literal dog.
  • anonomouse - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    There's also whatever Intel plans on covering on their Tiger Lake talk at Hot Chips, in between those two.
  • shabby - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    Are these the 15w chips or 45w ones?
  • trivik12 - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    I think its 25w cpu but can be clocked down for 15w. I think there have been many benchmarks posted with 1165 and 1185 cpus. Anyway let us wait for retail cpu. At least its good to note base cpu speed is way up for very low levels for icelake.
  • Krysto - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    Wait, so they benchmark them on 25W, but ship at 15W?

    Not that this isn't exactly the kind of thing I'd expect from industrial-chiller-Intel.
  • edzieba - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    "Wait, so they benchmark them on 25W, but ship at 15W?"

    No, the chips have variable TDP that is set by the laptop manufacture to match the thermal solution they use. That's how laptop chips have been specced (both Intel AND AMD) for the better part of a decade now.
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    Intel do usually release benchmarks based on devices that run at (and are cooled for) that 25W level. In the case of Ice Lake, they released benchmarks from a device with the fans set to 100%.

    The majority of devices on the market target 15W, though.

    So while you're correct about that last part, it's still technically true than Intel game their marketing numbers. I believe AMD did much the same thing with Raven Ridge, though.
  • lmcd - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link

    Raven Ridge runs hot so I doubt it actually stays down at 15W very often.
  • Santoval - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    "I think its 25w cpu but can be clocked down for 15w"
    It's actually the reverse : they are 15W CPUs that can be clocked higher and TDPed *up* to 25W.
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    15W - although as with Ice Lake, these are 25W chips with a 15W TDP-down mode.
  • drothgery - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    Pretty sure everything we've seen official demos or leaked benchmarks from has been Tiger Lake U (15-25W), though I'd bet a lot we see Y series or whatever they call <10W now too, so the way to bet is that's all that get's announced.

    It's at least occasionally rumored that Tiger Lake H (aka 45W) exists and is an 8 core part, but if it does, it's certainly not going to be in retail laptops for a while. If that's right, and Intel doesn't take too long in getting it out, it'd be interesting to see (and it's not inconceivable; notebooks with H-series parts are relatively low volume).
  • sorten - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    I'm on the Zen 3 bus now, but I'll definitely be excited to read about Intel's new GPU.
  • sjkpublic@gmail.com - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    10nm? AMD 7nm. Intel needs to be at 5nm. Size matters.
  • Jon Tseng - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    Intel 10nm is broadly equivalent to TSMC 7nm (which AMD is using) FYI. It's a marketing thing..
  • coschizza - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    no, is a technical thing
  • Unashamed_unoriginal_username_x86 - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    A marketing thing related to technical things. Not all features on a node are 7nm
  • xenol - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    Process nodes stopped measuring something resembling the number they're at generations ago. Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_nm_process#7_nm_pr... , literally nothing in the table is at 7nm. And funnily enough, Intel's 10nm is within spitting distance of TSMC's 7nm.

    Also of note, TSMC's 12nm is really a refined 16nm process.
  • Meteor2 - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link

    Intel 10 nm and TSMC 7 nm are in any functionally effectively identical.
  • azfacea - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link

    is this on 22nm or 45 ??
  • Alistair - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    "Icelake is great because I could buy a members only one time deal" ... smh I'm started to dislike deal people, they spend their lives trying to save a buck then brag to others about it.

    Go to a store today a year after launch, cheapest laptop at Bestbuy with Ice Lake is $550 CAD and it uses the G1 i3. This is a garbage CPU, dual core. No advanced graphics (G7 etc.)...

    Don't fall for marketing, if it isn't a G7 CPU and it isn't at least 4 cores, that isn't anything to brag about. Nothing at Bestbuy under $800 is...
  • Alistair - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    What I'm trying to say is "I hope we can buy a laptop with a Tigerlake CPU and actual XE graphics for under $800 CAD sometime in the next year, and not a one day deal".
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    Alas, I suspect you shall be out of luck. The PC market isn't going to be expanding as fast in volume anymore, so the whole industry is looking to push ASPs back up in the same way the smartphone industry did.

    You can already see it with gaming laptops rapidly shifting from $1100 for tatty crap up to $1500 for "mid-range" gear and $3000 at the high-end.
  • ikjadoon - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    If you actually looked at Best Buy CA (will write up a post), Renoir is MIA and nowhere.

    It's much more likely they'll find a Tiger Lake laptop under $800 at Best Buy CA than a Renoir (or Cezanne) laptop.
  • ikjadoon - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    I found five Ice Lake laptops (i5-1035G1) at Best Buy Canada for $799 CAD, sold by Best Buy CA:

    https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/search?path=sellerNam...

    If you spend $100 more, there's even an i7-1065G7:

    https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/lenovo-ideapa...

    What's terrible is Renoir availability. That's the best way for prices to drop, but it's MIA:

    4300U: no laptops. Best Buy CA sells more i5-4300U laptops than Renoir 4300U?
    4500U: $1000 minimum
    4600U: no laptops
    4700U: $1000 minimum
    4800U: no laptops

    Renoir is MIA and forever missing, unfortunately, months after launching. I wish it was available, but nobody can buy laptops that don't exist.
  • yeeeeman - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    I was hoping for some kind of preview in the middle of August but I am guessing it is not happening.
  • Meteor2 - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link

    Anonomouse said, await the Hot Chips presentation.
  • Powervano - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    I feel Intel really needs a 8 core model in 15 watts range, otherwise top of the line ZEN 2 are still so much powerful.
  • Alistair - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    personally i want the best graphics in a 30W envelope, if they can achieve it, i'd take that over 8 cores
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    Feeling much the same on that front, Whiskey Lake level of CPU power was already fine for me but the GPU was a joke. I think memory bandwidth is the biggest issue, though.

    We should start seeing more interesting propositions once DDR5 rolls around. I wish AMD would consider doing something like Sideport memory again, too.
  • KimGitz - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    Tiger Lake H is rumoured to come in Q1'21 should be upto 8 Core 35-45 Watts.
  • drothgery - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    I mean, they probably do because Ryzen 4xxxU is 8-core and good, but hitting 8 cores is more for marketing than for real use. More than 4C/8T in a single user system is just not very useful (if you're doing any of the small number of things that parellize well enough to get much use out of more than 4 cores enough for it to matter, you probably want more than 8, too, and so will be using a desktop or a server), and especially in a laptop with a U-series chip.
  • zepi - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    OEM's out there: Be brave and make a laptop model with Ryzen + Intel Xe dGPU. That one would be one for the history books.
  • Slash3 - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    RyXen. Has a ring to it.
  • KimGitz - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    I'm curious to see if Intel will actually have 8 Core Tiger Lake H Series 35-45 Watts parts. Would love to see a Microsoft Surface Book 4 with a 10nm 8 Core Tiger CPU with the Xe-LP iGPU and Thunderbolt 4 for the tablet part of the 2in1.
  • ikjadoon - Saturday, August 8, 2020 - link

    If Tiger Lake does have an H-series (Ice Lake did not), it'll include 8C/16T parts just like the i9-10980HK / i9-10885H.

    It seemingly has an H-series, according to rumors, but hardware rumors are like astrology: a bunch of people claiming they know the future and one of them is bound to be right, while thousands remain wrong.

    https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/joao-silva/intel-ti...
  • name99 - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link

    You can find Tiger Lake numbers on Geekbench today. A few percent here, a few percent there. What we've come to expect from Intel, once the tidal wave of marketing subsides.

    Bottom line -- I don't think anyone at Apple is looking at them and thinking "OMG, we made a terrible mistake"...
  • Lord of the Bored - Friday, August 7, 2020 - link

    Well, no. Apple is thinking "Good. That's one less company we have to split our outrageous profit margin with."
    They didn't change because they're the performance kings. They changed because they want to bring everything they can in-house. Outsourcing is so last year.

    Vertical integration, baby! Everything old is new again.
  • ikjadoon - Saturday, August 8, 2020 - link

    > They didn't change because they're the performance kings.

    Really, Lord of the Bored? Is that really not a critical part of the equation?

    I'm stunned people think that Apple will willingly transition to *slower* CPUs.
  • lmcd - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link

    They literally sandbagged their MBA 2020 perf, they're more worried than you think.
  • Meteor2 - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link

    Haha well said name99.
  • Meteor2 - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link

    God Intel's tweak-and-rebrand-as-a-new-generatiom approach to mobile processors is *tiring*.

    If anyone out there is reading this to research a new laptop, just go and buy something with an AMD 4000 processor in it.
  • lmcd - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link

    Imagine wanting graphics that regularly mismatch their control panel and driver version? Me neither. Go Intel unless you really want to game or render.

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