You mother fucking muslim dog, go find a child to fuck like ur filthy so called prophet Mohammed; we could then find a place to accommodate you in our prisons, or better still in Guantanamo Bay with your perverted muslim terrorist brethren.
Dude, I'm an Indian and a Hindu (if that matters!), who has spent about 2 good years in US, and now back in India. You are sikh and Hameed is Muslim, and one thing that is common between the two of you is that both have your opinion. Hameed is not in US and if he doesn't want to be there, then it's his choice. US is a nice to country to live and probably settled down in, but Hameed maybe doesn't feel that way. I do not see, how that make him "unfriendly" or "unwelcome" or "hostile" ?? You BTW seem to be going a little overboard about your love for the country (US), but your love for your motherland (where you were born) is it that strong ?? I'm not sure how many level-headed americans would appreciate your "deep" feelings for that country! Frankly I have nothing against and nothing for any particular community or religion. I'm fairly religion agnostic, but respect every religion. What Anand faced, was most unfortunate, but basically "you" are here acting almost like the drunk guy. Why not let hameed have his opinion ?? If wearing mini-skirts and having sex before marriage, is your idea of freedom and liberty, then well dude -- then you are looking just for a community, not a country!!
I loved your story and your experiences with your wedding!! I share your feelings you have about your wife -just like my own wife! Congratulations!
It's hard to take that there are those out there make anyone feel unwelcome, but many times they have their own internal battles. I may be somewhat of a consrvative guy, but I care very much about everyone- especially the making and molding of our "newer" (under 13,500 years) Americans which are accepted by all. We all know it won't happen 100%, but a guy that doesn't accept you doesn't accept me either with my ancestors here many hundreds (possibly thousands) of years, so I am just as hurt- but please don't ever feel unwelcome. If we all contribute whatever talents and strengths we have (and can) for each other (and BTW you have given me and many others LOTS of info and insight on this site) then we are ALL welcome as possible everywhere, certainly here! Thanks for all you and the people at this site do. -Brian
Great job on your site and congrats on your wedding!.
Don't mind the fools in the street, cos if we stoop to that level, we will end up just like them!. Not even worth a nanosecond of our time.
Good to see you diversified and did the Mac article. Nice touch, though I considered my self pretty much a MacIdiot, just repected that platform for what it can do. I'm a PC guy. Love Linux and Solaris X-86.
...Non-American, resident of Planet Earth.
It's obvious to me that a lot of these "anonymous" jerks are one and the same person taking/inventing two synthetic sides to muckrake things up. Sort of like the same actor wearing a different hand puppet on each hand. Look at their posts, you'll see through this.
As for the "legitimate" (hah!) anonymous polarized "forum road-rage" muckrakers: I am reminded of the Mark Twain idea of putting them all in a cage with each other and watching them go at it. : )
#286
You shithead! you goddamn mother fucker. Eat and Drink pig shit and urine. You are a bastard. your father is a father. your 14 generation are mother fucking bastards. So stop talking and do what you were doing (lick the slimy pig shithole.)
MU HA HA .
#282
You fucking Islamic pig. Shut up your fucking mouth. Your prophet was a fucking pervert, gigolo and murderer. Islam = Terrorism, Terrorist = Muslim.
I don't really have a point to understand. I very often create posts meant to cause more discussion or chaos. It is in my nature. I am just being ornery. I like to yell fire in a crowded theatre.
In response though about not being able to marry someone of a different religion or caste; many times the advice is good. The bible says not to be "unequally yoked". Meaning that if you both are on the same page spiritually (as well as all the other area) it makes for a better marriage. I'm not saying that's the only way a married is "golden" but it can help.
Not all religous texts are the same and some invite prejudice, violence and hate when it comes to certain groups or classes. That obviously is a mistake that will perpetuate scorn for generations. Especially in the hands of uneducated people in 3rd world countries that no nothing other than religious zealotry.
Do you say it is fundamental obediance to marry someone from your own religion? My partner is Hindu. In her culture, you are required to marry someone of the same caste. Some say it is because different castes have different values and living together would cause only tension and sorrow.
In my opinion this kind of rule is good mainly to perpetuate tradition, religion and prejudice.
And when I say one should be flexible and pragmatic with regards to religion, I mean your own religious beliefs and acts.
#278 Denis is like many Americans who are atheist or agnostic and believe they've deeply delved into spiritual issues.
Someone who has read a TIME article that has summed up all understand for any faith. What it really comes down to is the idea of incorporating some kind of belief system that requires you to sacrifice some so called freedom: like spanking it in a .25c peep show in New York or banging your neighbors wife (God fogive me). People can't deal with that. They would rather "be flexible and pragmatic with regards to religion" which means doing what they feel comfortable with and abandoning everything else. I'm not talking about selling your Daughter into slavery but fundamental obedience.
Denis, it is not a matter of who did what, it's a matter of what YOU do. So if a priest gets dirty with a choir boy the whole damn Faith is faulted? I thought it was about what YOU are doing and your spiritual walk. If seeing bad things deters you from Faith than you have no understand of Faith to begin with.
That's like me saying every Muslim should die just because of 9/11. What's the point? Was the entire Muslim community responsible for that? No. However, I do agree with many here about the overall errancy of Islam and the lack of outrage to terrorism in the name of Islam.
Goddamn motherfucking asshole american, time to wake up, bastards. more of this gonna happen soon, and you deserve this. yes you motherfucker lechers do deserve this.
Dooms day is here.
All the other major religions, Christianity, Hinduism etc have more or less adapted to the times. The Catholic Church for instance has acknowledged moral responsibilities for its misdeeds like the crusades, inquisitions etc. Hinduism acknowledges that cast discrimination (called untouchability) is wrong and was a mistake; if you visit any major Hindu temple in India this message is clearly displayed. Similarly Sati has been banned for over 200 years. Religious bigotry and intolerance is more on the individualistic in nature and not institutionalized.
Not so with Islam. In most Islamic countries the propagation of other religions is prevented by legal instruments like Pakistan’s anti blasphemy law or out rightly banned as in Saudi Arabia etc. In the north of Nigeria the building site allocated to a new church is usually the rubbish dump (I mean literally, no exaggeration). Many Islamic countries practice primitive Islamic laws, like stoning to death (Judaism and Christianity no longer practice this) or amputation are a common form of punishment. INTOLERANCE IS INSTITUTIONALIZED IN ANY MUSLIM WORLD (Turkey and Malaysia being the exceptions). Ask any non-Muslim living there; they will confirm what I say.
Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism etc have moved ahead with times. But Islam is stuck in the middle ages. I don’t think they can progress out of there as; Islam is essentially a medieval religion.
I got three words for you: FUEL AIR BOMB. That's all we need to use. Drop 20 of those suckers and you'll shut them up real quick. LONG LIVE AMERICA AND THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE! COOK BURGERS IS OUR TRADITION, MUCH LIKE A FOREIGN MISSION!
HA HA HA HA. Anyone see the movie 'HAMBURGER'. Man, good laughs.
Sure the fundaments of the muslim religion are not all great. I feel the same about any religion. Whether be it by the hand of their founders, or the priests after them, there is always something wrong in all organised religions.
It is up to the followers to make informed decisions based on their beliefs, their education and their intelligence. Maybe in a middle east country it is not suitable for a muslim to marry a non-muslim (community matters). In a western country it is perfectly acceptable to marry outside your religion (individualistic approach). One needs to be flexible and pragmatic with regards to religion.
Anand, I am sorry this still happens. Maybe you would feel more at home if your political representatives were more like you. Gone through the same experience as you.
Some people made a point that by posting this entry about that guy, you are merely "whinging". Maybe they are right. Maybe you can do something about it. Engage in making the world a more educated, more tolerant place. You have a name, you can help.
And isn't it funny how all the people...or at least most of the people who are using the foul language and ignorance don't leave their names? Why is that? Just a thought...
Wow, and all I wanted to say was congratulations on your wedding. I'm hoping yours was as special and unforgettable day as mine was. Good luck and hope you and your wife live long and productive lives.
#271
Countries like India and the Philippines etc, have tried to be on the good books of the rest of the world, as they fight Islamic terrorism. Fat good it has done them. Terrorist trained from across their borders come in and commit atrocious terrorist acts.
America chooses to have the war on Islamic terrorism in fought the Islamic world itself (where it is bred). It is always better to fight the battle on a foreign soil rather than on the home front.
#272
90% of mother fucking Muslims are terrorists. Islam is a terrorist religion, it's founder the bastard Mohammed is a fucking morally bankrupt pedophile, gigolo, mass murderer and terrorist. Islam is the cause for disruption of world peace since the fucking Mohammed started hallucinating. All Muslim countries are ignorant, intolerant, misgoverned shit holes. You fucking Muslim bastards contemplate on this.
More than 50% of these mother fucker Americans are bastards. I really mean bastards (no origin of fathers). The society is morally bankrupt, now they gonna be financially bankrupt (as their bastasd Prez keeps 'waging war against terrorist(?)' and squander billion of dollars in the process. He is voted one danger man in the world. Americans are most ugly goddam mother fucking ignorant+arrogant nation in the world. It is time of self reckoning.
Anon: you are acting like a jerk. America under the present Government has made itself alienated from the rest of the civilized world. All that it can do is to kill innocent people around the world, create more terrorist and like blood sucking leeches, tries to dry up wealth, resources of another country. So don't be so proud. As you are not doing anything to be proud off.
Grow up you snivelling little brat. If this is the first time you've been insulted, then you were probably born with a gold spoon in your mouth. At seventeen not everyone in this country was driving a BMW to high school. We were cleaning the old used spark plugs, vacuuming our air filters, using duct tape to patch muffler holes.
When the muslim community was questioned about the movements and contacts of Mohamed Ata (Flew one of the planes into the WTC) here in Portland Maine where he lived and planned all of his movements, in this free country, not one muslim spoke up to offer information, the community leader did not feel at all a little resposible and refused further comment.
Don't try to tell us that Iran would not behead a black or white American walking down a street in terhan with his wife uncovered. Can you ask where the local Catholic Church is in Iran.
Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech. That 1s what you have here in American but you only choose to defend Iran and the muslim way of life. Some people just don't give a shit, what they do give a shit about is that no one is going to harrass another American except for another American. The clerics in iran are the ones making all the decisions in the muslim world. Only the muslims can police thier own people.
You kiss Iran's ass like it was one of the best countries in the world. I am proud of my French heritage but I surely would not be proactive to a country like France except for the bunch of cowards that they are.
I was born in this country and had a french accent growing up because of my parents and I was always critized about being in America and speaking english, being called a frog. A Big Deal?, no. Why, because I was calling the dude with the bulgarian accent comrade, and communist, we were friends.
Get over it!! GROW UP, BE AN AMERICAN!!! Get witty, you should have told the asshole, "that's right and I know were you live.
Make no mistake about it, the people that died for this country did it for you, your Irish neighbor, your German Mechanic, your Israli shop owner, your blue blooded Englishman that burned down the White House.
Read up on our History for once. BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT, IN THE BATTLE FOR FREEDOM, THE BULLET I'D TAKE WOULD BE TO DEFEND YOUR WAY OF LIFE AND THE RIGHT OF PEOPLE TO BE IDIOTS. THE BULLET I PUT BETWEEN THE EYES OF A TERRORIST MAY JUST WELL BE A MUSLIM. COULD YOU DO THAT "I AM AN AMERICAN". WOULD YOU KILL ANOTHER MUSLIM IN DEFENSE OF BEING AN AMERICAN?
I've lived in many countries and worked with different cultures. I experienced what you talked about living in California, and now living in Germany as well.
See my friend, its a White world, and we've chosen to live in their land. Theres no use lamenting because no matter how many generations or how much taxes u pay, you'll always be Ausländer.
It's a great thing you got going here on this site, please don't spoil it by encouraging political discussions. It reminds me of the fray on slate. Every moron with an opinion and a keyboard writes trash.
Congrats on your wedding. I am sorry to hear that some idiot disrupted your honeymoon. Being of Indian origin and having to travel atleast thrice a week due to my job, I know what you are talking about. Whenever I enter a plane, I feel people stare at me like I was as guilty of the crime of 9/11. And for some reason my bags go through the extra security screening even though I am a frequent flyer.
My question is that since the IRA is a terrorist organization, can I assume that all white people are terrorists or since the KKK was an exclusively white-male organisation are all white males racists?
I don't respond to the stares, because you know what, f**k them.
#160
"As an American I am proud to live in my country;"
Please tell me why? What great effort of yours made you live in that country?
I am not proud to live in Europe. I didn't do anything to make this happen. It is my habbit to only be proud on things I achieve.
"no other country provides the freedoms and
economic opportunity as the US does."
Euh? Please tell me: Have you lived in every other
country in the world? How would you know that your
country provides more freedoms (ignoring the fact that more freedom might not necessarily mean better life) then any other or gives you more economic opportunity?
It is exactly that kind of cr*p that is annoying the rest of the world. "We are better then you. Our country is better then yours."
Please, try to appreciate the existance of countries other then your USA. Civilization was not born in the USA, neither was freedom of speech , democrasy, science, math, your language and what not.
The one original thing that was born in America was been destroyed by your noble ancestors.
Hmm.. reading akll the 260 (!!) posts makes a few things clear...
*America is the land of the free, Every one can give their opinions... Even Idiots. Anand, I have been frequenting ur site for past 4 years, All along i thought u were a hindu (Anand sounds hindu), But does it matter? NO, it doesnt, I would have still visited ur site if ur name was Bolzkovitch (as long as u dont name it as bolzkovitchtech.com , too complicated to remember LOL).
If u R a muslim, so what? It doesnt make u any less of a human being...!
But as somebody as pointed out, Discrimination has plagued human beings as long as we existed, in America its discrimination based on color/caste , In india its based on caste (also states, we have very colourful and vivd Cultures for each state).
But at the end of the day, the great strength of the human race (The reason for our survival) is that when it matters, we are willing to look past these barriers and work together...!
Oh by the way, as some of u might have guessed, Im from India.
I'm glad to hear there is at least one sane muslim in the world. In my country muslims attempted to murder the director of the publishing company that published Satanic Verses.
In the aftermath of that a tv channel made it their mission to proove that most muslims didn't support this at all. They were unable to find a single muslim who was willing to stand up and condemn that attempted murder in public. There were plenty of people who expressed regret that it wasn't them who attempted though.
Hell, even self-proclaimed "moderate" muslim organizations publicly supported the idea of death penalty for critizising Islam.
That whole episode, which lasted about a month and had comments from literally 100s of muslims, just blew me away and my view of Islam now is that it is a massive power system with brainwashing of members from birth. I think that if muslims want to be looked at as human beings they're going to have to act like it. Like you do.
hello, i think that u should ignore what others might say, because i have faced the same problem. See, i am afghani, and some people make fun of me too, but i dont pay attention, and so they just forget about it. And now, people dont make fun of me. Oh and i have friends from japan, netherlands, and everywhere else. please email me.
Pity me I am white. Pity me I am black. To the majority of Americans skin color does not matter. What you do in life matters. Racism is not about education about a person's culture. The culture does not matter to bigots. Uneducated racists hate because it is easy. For example you see Rodney King getting beat on TV or Martin Luther King getting shot, certain people generalize under race. They fail to get to know the individual. Never generalize for that is the heart of racism. We Americans are individuals not under our race, ethnicity, religion or place of birth but becaause of who we are and how we treat others. I'm sorry this happened in your and my country. Bless you
Anand: First of all, I want to point out to everyone here and to you yourself (as you might sometimes forget) that you are *AMERICAN* just as much as I am American. Where your mom comes from does NOT make you Iranian just as much as where my Grandmothers came from does not make me British, German or Russian. What you have *DONE* with your (so far) short life is 110% American, through and through... in fact, it is far more American than most of your audience or most of the average "americans", for that matter. I might not have all the facts straight here, forgive me for my errors, but I have been reading your site and LEARNING FROM YOU for about... maybe 6-7 years now... your site (and Tom's) were easily the 2 main sites that gave me the extra knowledge I needed to excel in my budding profession. Starting out at the grass roots level that you did and through lots of hard work and dedication you have achieved an AMAZING spot of eminence in the tech sector throughout this country and around the world. YOU EXEMPLIFY WHAT IT IS TO BE AMERICAN... except for one thing: that for a moment you believed some stupid loser and doubted yourself. You should commit to yourself and to God (Allah) that you will never ever think of yourself again as non-American, nor ever again think of how much you "just want to go home" which is "anywhere but here"... that was wrong, that was un-American, that was a moment, albeit a very small moment, where you failed yourself, your family, your God, and your fellow Americans; never again doubt who you are because of some jerk that clearly doesn't comprehend who it is that stands before him. Always be the model that you were destined to be!
I know this is long... I'll try and sum up the rest of my thoughts as quickly as I can... most of the authors here are far too polarized on this issue. First of all, some take the position of basically saying that he shouldn't have said what he said... this is his PERSONAL blog where he expresses PERSONAL feelings... if you don't like what he says here, I think you should just get bent! Others here seem to take varius positions between learning to just deal with racism, to the thought of basically as I read someone say something to the effect of anti-muslimism is perhaps good or some crap like that... let me just say that both viewpoints are about as diametrically opposed views on racism as you can get. What muslims, indians, jews, christians, mormons, mexicans, russians, africans, and any other "group" has to realize when they come to (or finally realize that they are in) America is this: there is one GREATER "group" that we all belong to and is superior to any other "group"... the Common Brotherhood and Sisterhood of being AMERICANS! The sooner we learn to set aside our differences and cherish and revel in the one awesome and central commonality that we all have, the sooner that we will past our little hang-ups and racist/nationalist crap! Next time someone treats you bad because of your color, race, or creed, try this: go out of your way to be decent, polite, and kind to that person... odds are that that person is like that because they have been running shy of kindness from other people in their life and certainly haven't learned that it comes "from people like you" (whoever "you" happens to be at the time)... if your actions don't work (likely they won't), be kind and curteous as you are leaving... EVENTUALLY your action and/or the action of the next guy after you will 'click' with that individual and they'll "get it". (I.E. Don't "flip them off" as some reader commented... I admit I do it over road-rage issues, my bad... but over interpersonal relationships, this will definitely only excacerbate the problem!)
Some facts about me, in the interest of fairness:
* I am white
* I am a natural-born American
* I am heterosexual
* I am derived from ancestors mainly from "Europe"
* I am "Mormon" (thus, I am very familiar with this whole 'prejudice' topic and have had to "practice what I preach" a great deal when it comes to responding to people's attacks on my religion)
* I have been to about a dozen other countries and am intensely interested in other societies and cultures; though I realize, as someone wrote here, that America has created the most amount of good in the shortest amount of time for the greatest number of people.
Only once felt foreign - hey that's good. I was actually thrown out of one country (not us) - for being foreign. The locals did not mind me at all, but another foreigner did. And I'm white, did not look that foreign to them (or the person who made up a story about me in order to get people not like me)
251- am sure its much harder if you look any different from the majority, but were you a white american in europe nowadays, you might run into people saying things to you because of the war, which is not popular, at least the people of european descent get along with each other where you live, it is not so in europe always.
I to am from another country. I echo your sentiments. While things are not perfect, the US is one of the best countries in the world when it comes to protecting the individual rights of its citizens.
I was born in another country, and I've traveled all over the world- some places were great, some sucked. The U.S. is far from perfect, but in it's short history, it has managed to create the greatest amount of good for the largest number of people.
Anand, what you experienced wasreality. I'm surprised that it is the first time you have been made to feel "foreign."
The truth of the matter is that as long as the color of your skin is not white you will have to hear those things for the rest of your life.
For example if you were an immigant who came from some European country. I can bet you that the drunk would not have said those things.
And him bing drunk is no excuse, the truth of what he what feels is coming out of his mouth.
It has been over what, 100 years? Do you think that African Americans are still treated or thought of as equals?
Ofcourse there are pleanty of people that have respect for everybody, but there are still a lot of people who do not.
Michael Moore has stated that Americans are the dumbest people on the planet. I very much beg to differ. We are some of the most ignorant people on the planet)
Americans tend to be very uneducated about other cultures and frankly, dont care to know. Most Americans dont know an Indian from an Arab or a Muslim from a Hindu.
Its sad but true and it most likely will never change. After all, why learn about other cultures when you can watch Friends or some stupid reality show? Why go to India when you can go to Vegas?
Islamophobia, would be the right word. This phobia might be actually good. The reason for this is that all the terrorists trying to hurt us today are MUSLIMS. They draw their inspiration and motivation from the teachings of the Quran. Their fellow Muslims who claim to be innocent people, do nothing to condemn their actions. In fact talk to them in private, you will realize he smug satisfaction they derive from these actions.
Go to any mosque in the third world today, listen to what their imams (priests) say about America and the west, the kind of hatred they inspire and their glowing references to these terrorists, then you will be realize, Islamophobia is not a bad thing. In fact it helps keep us safer.
So you have no problem fostering xenophobia and hatred on your forums, but as soon as something happens to you personally, it's an issue?
Take a look at what your members are saying, and then you'll probably understand better why this happened. Frankly I'm shocked that you seem so surprised at this.
Just do remember that the majority of the terrorists were Saudi's financed by those well meaning average Muslims that would never hurt a fly. The point being that just as wasps allowed the KKK to exist with a wink and a nod in their communities, so do many average Muslims that would never do an act of harm. However, by not doing anything they could be considered part of the problem just as would those socalled Christians that allowed the KKK to exist in their midsts.
Also remember that many of these troubled zealots come from the radical Muslim schools which are largely financed by well meaning Muslims. Muslims around the world need to move to address these things. The problem can only be solved BY Muslims. Until these terrorists are ACTIVELY ostracized and destroyed BY THE Muslim community we will always have the problem.
"Over two hundred people could have spent this forum time organizing, contributing, and otherwise pushing society in a more constructive direction."
C'mon lets be real. Some ass hurt Anand's feelings. Your bound to find these jerks everywhere; driving with your family, out in public, wherever. Anand wrote a weblog post about feeling discriminated against to people who obviously wouldn't treat him that way (namely all of us). We all appreciate Anand and Anandtech for that matter. However, 200 or so collective "I'm sorrys" apologizing for some idiot makes no sense. What the hell for? To make Anand feel better? Gee, I wish I had that luxury. Anand could have just as easily given him the bird, voiced his opinion, or just walked off.
Sometimes you have one of those days and end up feeling like the world's against you. Sometimes it's other people that make you feel that way. It doesn't matter if they're black, white, bipolar, midgets, Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. If Anand is a U.S. citizen and feels so strongly about this why would one drunken jerk throw him in such flux? He knows the truth, isn't that the most important thing? Isn't that enough?
As far as the religous debate going on, who cares if people do it? It's constructive, and I don't see any threat in their passionate responses about their beliefs. Perhaps if we'd be more willing to listen than piss and moan when someone talks about religion we'd get somewhere.
Generally speaking, these posts are well-informed, sympathetic, and probably very appreciated by anyone who has been subject to this kind of harassment. However, let's put ourselves, for example, in Anand's shoes; would you rather see sympathy or action?
We're all familiar with the phrase "Actions speak louder than words". For the sake of that wisdom, and for the sake of many more people than just Anand, suck it up, move on, and try to make manifest these ideas in a world not constricted to text. Once again, I'm sure the sympathy is appreciated. Remember, though, that we're striving for a world where sympathy of this form should not need to exist - at least some of us are. Over two hundred people could have spent this forum time organizing, contributing, and otherwise pushing society in a more constructive direction.
Save your words, that they may empower your actions.
As an American who was born of American parents I never even realized that you were actually not an American of European decent. It would be somewhat odd to even see a man with a turban where I live which is Near St Louis, MO. A lot of the people in this region might be considered Rednecks or traditional Americans from European ancestry with the exception of African Americans who I am guessing originated from African Decendents (Duh). I would like to add that I was actually born at the Nauseur Air Depot near Casablanka Morocco. My father was in the Air Force so I was actually born in Africa. If I claimed joint citizenship that would make be a White African American. This is a little on the absurd side, but it belays my background. I am a son of an Air Force Enlisted man so I also got a chance to live in Italy near Ciampino Air Base for 3 years which was quite exciting. Then when I grew up I spent two tours of duty in South Korea in the US Army. This just shows that I have some experience living in foreign countries and being exposed to other cultures.
When I came back from South Korea there was a time when my wife, who was from Seoul Korea, was contacted by someone who was from North Korea asking here if she would be interested in visiting there. I was in the Army at the time and she was afraid to bring it up. She is by no means stupid and just ignored the phone call. If she had told me about it at the time, I would have reported it as an attempted act by an enemy agent to get us to commit espionage. This is revealing because it shows that people that are from or nearly from your home country are not hesitant to attempt to get a foreigner to give them support or commit espionage in aiding the enemy.
My wife has often been targeted by police because she is different. She doesnt appear to fit in to the normal inhabitant of this area. Whether this is profiling or discrimination or just common sense reasoning on the part of a police I will leave it up to you to decide. I know she has expressed her disappointment with this kind of treatment, and it has upset me a time or two. It is bad enough that she does not speak English as her primary language and learned to drive after she arrived in this country. It does make things difficult at times.
Even though I understand this sort of thing I also know that many people from the middle east have been called on from friends or their countryment to help other people from their home country who may be working in the USA or actually immigrating themselves. This was a technique that some of the terrorists used during their stay in the USA before they committed their terrorists acts. I mention because I want to warn you and others about this. While it is an innocent act to give aid to your fellow countrymen, it might be considered aiding and abetting the enemy or even an act of treason in this country by the FBI.
There has been a lot of talk lately in this country that Muslims do not speak out against acts of terror. There was a gentleman who was a muslim that had written a book about this that was from a muslim country that was on the local radio station. He said that sometimes it seems that muslims may not aid the terrorists. However, he went on to say that some muslims even though they would not commit a terrorist act or help a terrorist sometimes in their hearts they have a gleeful feeling when a terrorist is successful. This does point to a problem even though from your own admission you may not have the same point of view.
I am sorry you have become upset in this occurrance, but I would ask you, if the person that offended you was in your mother's country, how would they be treated? It might be they would be treated well, maybe not. It probably would depend who they were associating with. I think there is good and bad everywhere, and that we should look for the good. Maybe one day you should wear your turban and wave the American Flag on independence day or maybe just a US flag pin to show your patriotism. I hope you have not been offended too bad.
Congrats on your wedding!
And I am very sorry for your feelings, you are right and the Anon above me is also right, damn!.
What th f%&k is the solution? I guess is "Don't hate anyone", but it is as simpler as it is very difficult.
I'm Mexican, and I would like to think we don't have racial problems but hey, every gang that hates another gang is the same, just to country level.
I hope this don't get out of control (more).
Enjoy your marriage..(I am 10 years married so far, very nice)
All the terrorists trying to inflict harm on Americans today are Muslims, mostly from the Middle East. There is nothing wrong on Americans keeping a watchful eye on Muslims and Arabs; after all it pays to be cautious.
In the same light there is nothing wrong in our law enforcement agencies stereotyping and profiling those who are trying to hurt us.
If Muslims and Arabs want to integrate peacefully in the US today, they should do their bit to make us safer; they could start by condemning terrorism.
If you search the forums dealing with terrorism around the country today, you find the majority of Muslims there giving excuses for the terrorists and reasons for why Islamic terrorism exists; You do not find many of them condemning terrorism. It is very disturbing when the deeds of a terrorist are not condemned, even more when excuses, justifying them are given!
Until Arabs and Muslims, come out strongly against terrorism, we will consider you with suspicion.
I am an American right now living in Canada and next month moving to Switzerland... The place your from is really irrelevant and although this issue is most visible at home in the US, it exists everywhere and its equally unacceptable from any side of the circle.
I would imagine that many Americans feel that Arabic men between the ages of 18 and 38 COULD POSSIBLY mean to harm people who are not of the faith, in essence infidels. Get a grip, I believe most, if not all of the 9-11 terrorists were from Saudi ARABIA. While I don't condone or agree with the actions of the putz that insulted you, many Americans will be looking askance at their Arabic neighbors and wondering if they will harm their families by doing something crazy. Bomb me once shame on you, bomb me twice, shame on me.
It's too bad that a few whackos have messed it up for everyone else, but that's the way it is now.
BTW, congratulations on your wedding.
I am very sorry this happened to you. I can see that it hurt you tremedously and it should not have happened.
I understand your educational major is a historical study of your heritage.
I don't know whether you would consider this history or just an unfortunate incident due to the times and mood of "our", you and I, country at the time.
When my Dad (white) stepped of a C-130 in San Diego in 1970, he was spat on, called a baby killer, had eggs thrown at him while he limped through the airport due to the amount of shrapnel embedded in his legs carrying the Purple Heart he had just received on the runway while serving in SouthEast Asia.
When he passed the guanlet of U.S. Citizens of all colors and backgrounds, he had 10 of his comrades with him of all backgrounds and colors and heritage, rich and poor.
I could go on about how long he had to endure such treatment, but I just wanted to try to put your incident in perspective and hope you can continue your outstanding website.
#227
"..take the example of iraq atack even though there were no weapons of mass distructions present which was quiet clearly stated by the UN but still a person attacks another country just for the sake of revenge to his family"
You conveniently forget that Saddam was a brutal dictator who killed hundreds of thousands of Shias and Kurds. Opps.....sorry I forgot, he is a Sunni Arab, therefore he has the license to kill. In fact Allah would reward him for his efforts with his own harem, after we hang him!
This is a good enough forum with ‘mainstream’ audience to expose Islam for what it really is.
You quote. “He who has hurt one person has therefore hurt the entire human race"…give me a break! Such verses are so few and far between. Islam is all about intolerance.
“When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.” (Quran47.4).
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, And seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent (accept Islam) and establish regular prayers and practices regular charity then open the way for them; for God is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Quran 9:5)
“Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you.” (Quran-2:216)
“Make war upon such of those who believe not the Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth even if they are the people of the book (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya (tax) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” (Quran-9:29)
“….Allah promises you much booty (spoils of war) that you will capture from the defeated infidels….” (Quran - 48:20)
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them” (Quran-8:12)
I will take a pause from the Quran (I haven’t even starte with the Hadits yet!)
Judaism is as bad and as intolerant as Islam! Christianity is a shade better in that, Jesus doctrine breaks from the vicious circle of suppression, war, genocide etc. He preached a doctrine of peace, forgiveness and meekness. The apostles in the New Testament build on this. But then of course you had the crusades, but then you can, counter argue that the church of a time was more of a political entity, than a religious one. Any way the crusades were in accordance with the teachings of the Old Testament, but directly contradict the teaching of Jesus an his apostles. But not so with Jihad; jihad is based directly on the teaching of the Quran and the Hadits, and matches the life and deeds of old Mo’.
Just look around and you will see several mullahs in mainstream mosques teaching and justifying jihad and Islamic fundamentalism. One cannot imagine a Rabbi or a Pastor of a mainstream synagogue or church today, instructing young boys to wage war on their nation till all non-Jews or nor-Christians are subjugated; they would be defrocked.
But such instructions are a way of life in mainstream Quranic schools around the Muslim world today; I myself received such indoctrination in the Quranic School run by my local Mosque. It is funny how people like Mohammad Zeeshan and the media try to portray Islamic fundamentalism to be coming from the lunatic fringe of the Muslim faith. If the lunatic standing in the back of the mosque were practicing this, then this argument holds ground. But when the Imam in the front of the mosque shouts this, then there is a crisis in the Muslim faith.
How do you get 228 normally rational and technically interested people to become irrational and racist, not to mention completely psychotic? Create an article involving race, and then leave an open forum to comment on.
I really don't care what faith the person I face follows, nor do I care what caste/race he belongs to. As long as he is a sensible person meaning good to those around him, it makes everyone's day.
However, there are people like #194 above who truly bring us down. I have hardly seen people condemning their blood and their land because it does not offer them _material_ comforts. I can understand the plight of refugees who don't want to go back to their land because of the oppression that they would have to face. But this, I cannot understand.
And this is precisely what I think Anand intended to say - that he _belongs_ to the USA, that he is a _citizen_ of the USA, that religion has _nothing_ to do with what he wanted to say, the message he wanted to share with all of us.
So for God's sake, please stop slander and abuse here. What's happened in the past has happened. Do we really care about how old Mohammed's wife was or how old Mary was when she was impregnated? Do you think about religion based on who perpetrated the rules and what _they_ did? Shouldn't you rather evaluate the so-called rulebook objectively and see what _you_ like? Forget religion for humanity's sake and concentrate on what Anand wanted to convey and what you can do to prevent things like the one that Anand had to face. Treat everyone as your equal. Love a living being irrespective of its species, sub-species, appearance and what have you. It's then and only then will we be fortunate enough not to see an account of a single person's travails degenerate into a ~150 messages long war of hatred and disrespect.
Well Anand just as there are fools from the middle east who in the name of their religion murder and maim innocents there are also fools here in america who based on a physical perception choose to prejudge those who appear different from themselves. Fortunately they are a very small minority and in no way should be construed as anything remotely akin to mainstream. In a perfect world 9-11 would never have happened and the drunken idiot you crossed paths with would have not made such a foolish statement but this is not a perfect world and like it or not we must live in it. Do not let it change your attitudes to your fellow americans. This country was built by men who took the high road and held themselves to a higher standard. Be like them as that is what the spirit of being an american is to strive to emulate and exceed those who have come before.
to #196 and others
this i belive is not a good place to argue over believes and i hope the only good thing v can do for the time being is address the holy statures of the other religions with some respect just like u respect the ones in your religion and try avoiding irritating and unjustified words for anything v donot have the full knowledge aboutb/c atleast this is what i always do..Anands point remains the same that ppl have this really idiotic thinking that anything bad happening to them is to be cursed to the whole caste or religion in the entire world and not merely the stupid a--holes doing it who themselves do not have the correct practices...i condemn each and everything bad event going through the world in which innocents r being hurt as the biggest sin (simply a bad thing) this is as evient in the holy Quran .."he who has hurt one person has therefore hurt the entire human race" so plz tell me could there be any possibility of those damn alqayedas or anyother group practicing islam no they r not, the only thing they do is bring disgrace to others....i have no doubt that with all the differences in the religions no religion in the world can offer any teachings which are trouble to other human beings...in the end every religion has its faith so go along take pride in it but at the same time plz learn to respect others religion as well...this world is a mess and it is not a hidden truth that the big powers around the world also contribute to the scandiling of the ones they hate and compete the most so its all added up to some stupid idiots like osama who actually r fanatics plus the policies of the so called competing world to lame up the entire compititors.I live in NY and i take pride in a lot of things USA has to offer but at times i do feel that once in a while the policies r not very convincing and v could have avoided alot of peace disruption thru our own hands take the example of iraq atack even though there were no weapons of mass distructions present which was quiet clearly stated by the UN but still a person attacks another country just for the sake of revenge to his family
I appreciate the enligthening information regarding the laws of yore that allowed pedophilia. I also know that you are only defending your religion and the man (good ole Mo') who started it. Different cultures consider maturity differently. Some believed that once a girl had her period she became of age (obviously thinking reproduction)while others associated a specific age with maturity. Many times this was due to life expentancy in a culture as it is today in third world country where people don't live beyond their mid 20's.
I am less concerned about the ridiculous laws that permitted (or still permit) pedohiplia as I am with a man who created a religion based on misinformation and his own meandering. Heck, if we want to talk about stupid laws, you can't buy milk on Sunday's in some parts of Texas. Is that stupid or what?
I understand culture has a lot to do with the age of marriage but lets face it, many muslims put particular emphasis on their supposed heavenly gifts. To die as a martyr and inherit your own personal brothel? When I die sex is the last thing I want to think about in the after life. I would hope there would be more to look forward to then screwing a bunch of virgins. Sure, it sounds like fun but c'mon we are of flesh to serve a purpose and flesh serves a purpose thus allowing reproduction. Are we to think that we would progress into a spritual life where our desires and needs are based on pleasures of the flesh? Twisted logic here.
I don't agree with many people who place the blame for all terrorism at the hand of Mulims. Take for example the so called *extreme* Christians who kill Doctor's who perform abortions or blow up the clinics. However, this pales in comparison to the HUGE increase in Muslim terrorism. Not one muslim leader or country condemned what happened in Russia. They see their violent cause as righteous and that's the saddest part.
192: "America ... This is THE MOST TOLERANT nation in the world, the most perfect society, the only "proposition nation" - one built not on ties of blood, but on ideological ones. It's tragic that you don't see this."
Sorry but every nation has blood involved. You're saying that America's most violent war (their American Civil War) proves that the country hasn't shed their own blood to make it happen?
Secondly, I agree America is rather tolerant compared to most nations, but it seems you're forgetting about Canada or most of Europe. Canada at the last is far more tolerant than the USA. Toronto, the largest city, is 50% ethnic! And no, that's not a bad thing :)
Obviously, the American thing to do would have been to grab that guy by his collar and punch him in the face. That's how we take care of things. That's the American way.
#194: You don't deserved to be call an Indian. I am an Indian and I am living in the US, but that doesn't mean I hate my home country.
It's ignorant people like you who can't seem to find good in other countries. Ever wondered why so many US companies are outsourcing to India? I am sure they wouldn't have outsourced to India if it was hell. India produces some of the smartest people in the world.
Just because a country is 3rd world country doesn't make it hell. Just because you are so used to living a in AC and driving AC cars at age 16 doesn't make India hell.
Sure, if you are uneducated you are not going anywhere in India. However, in US you can still be a millionaire even if you have graduated from high school.
What I am trying to say is if you haven't experienced India, don't go criticizing anything. I hope you realize that people will still discriminate against you even if you love US so much.
Basically, you hate India and Americans hate you, so to speak. You are stuck in the middle and no place to go.
Did you read the article in this week’s edition of Time about the plight of Christians in Iraq? Take into account the treatment of Christians and Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh, The murder of Christians and burning of churches in Indonesia and Nigeria, or the murder of Christians by the FIS Islamic terrorists in Algeria, or the treatment of the Copts in Egypt, massacre of Hindu pundits in Kashmir, the status of Christians in Syria or the fact that Parsees had to flee Iran to come to India, People are not allowed to practice or propagate other faiths in the Gulf states etc. You find that Intolerance is the rule not the exception in the Muslim world.
It makes me wonder why Muslims like Anand should make such a big deal about the comments of a drunk. You Muslims are getting a free ride here compared to what you dish out to non-Muslims in your area of the world.
By whatever standards you judge the age of consent, a 9 year old girl is simply not ready for sexual relationship. The need for education is not the primary reason for increasing the age of consent. It is because the psychological devastation such liaisons cause is now well documented in the medical world. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MODERN MEDICINE, THAT SEXUAL EXPLOITATION OF PREADOLESCENT GIRLS HAS A DEVASTATING IMPACT ON THEIR PSYCHE. If old Mo’ did not know this then he is no visionary (His theory of conception is not only ludicrous and unscientific but is so comical that it could find its way into MAD magazine; I suggest you should read that theory, it makes a good laugh).
A prophet is supposed be a visionary. I am an atheist, but I do respect the teachings of Jesus and the Buddha because; Jesus preached forgiveness in a society where “a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye” was the order of the day. The Buddha taught equality and respect for all living beings in a cast based society. This is what I call visionary.
But a preacher who took full advantage of an age were minor girls were exploited, to hump around with a 9 year old child is no visionary, but rather a pervert, or more accurately just another cult leader who stole Ideas from Judaism and Christianity, to have his shot at power.
I have read the Torah, the Bible, the Koran and the Buddhist and Hindu scriptures from page to page. Only in the Koran (through the glorification of the life of old Mo’) is pedophilia encouraged. Your statement of the age of Mary at the time of the birth of Jesus is purely based on the Jewish tradition of the time. But there is no SHREAD of evidence as to the actual age of Mary at that time; one could make the argument that Mary married a bit later (this was not uncommon at the time). Also if you consider the Jewish tradition of the time Joseph would more likely have been a young man (remember polygamy was not very common at that age). Any way enough of this hocus pocus story of Mary and Joseph. The bottom like is your statement on the age of Mary is based on assumption, but the age of the girl raped by old Mo’ is “written in stone”.
The life and deeds of Jesus and the Buddha, will measure up to the yardstick of any age; past , present and future. But that of old Mo’ falls short of modern standards (I am not taking into account of old Mo’ as a mass murderer). This ability to measure up to time is why Christianity and Buddhism are able to move on with time, but Islam is stuck in the middle ages.
The age of sexual consent is still quite low in many places. In Japan, people can legally have sex at age 13, and in Spain they can legally have sex at age 12. (This data comes from the Age of Consent chart, which you can see at: http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)
The Prophet's contemporaries (both enemies and friends) clearly accepted the Prophet's marriage to `Aisha without any problem. We see the evidence for this by the lack of criticism against the marriage until modern times. However, a change in culture caused the change in our times today.
A 40-year-old man having sex with a 14-year-old woman may be a "pedophile" in the USA today, but not in China today (where the age of consent is 14), nor in the USA last century. Biology is a much better standard by which to determine these things in my view, not the arbitrariness of human culture.
***** In the USA last century, the age of consent was 10 years old. California was the first state to change the age of consent to 14, which it did in 1889. After California, other US states joined in and raised the age of consent too. (Source: http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numberone.htm...
As for the reasons why we age of consent just seems to get higher and higher, Essentially, we need more education just to survive in today's society, and this takes much more time. This additional education we need to function in today's society seems to me to be the main cause of the increase in the age of consent in many 20th century societies. The Common Law age of consent was 10. The French penal code raised the age from 11 to 13 only a century ago. In England, it was only in 1929 (70 years ago) that the ancient Christian minimum age for the marriage of females, which was 12, was abandoned. The early rock and roll singer Jerry Lee Lewis was considerably older than his 13 cousin whom he married in all legality in Arkansas. Since then, the age there has been raised to 16. That marriage lasted for about 15 years and there was never any other "scandal" associated with Jerry Lee Lewis. The story is quite different, however, for his cousin Jimmy Swaggart (the well-known and disgraced tele-evangelist) who married a woman his own age but later publicly confessed that he was an adulterer and a whoremonger.
In the seventh century, 3 year old girls were burned to death or tortured in Europe for copulating with demons, witches and sorcerers. Strong sexual passions were attributed to the youngest children. Even Jean Bodin, one of the greatest legal authorities of his time, said that the appropriate age of consent for a female was 6. (I do not mean to suggest that 3 year olds did in fact have sexual relations with demons. It is however interesting to see that at that time it was publicly believed that child-adult relations were the fault of seductive children who sought out mature men rather than today's popular belief that it is instead pedophiliac adults who prey on innocent, unsuspecting children.)
In the US (an example of a prominent western country, since the west had the greatest effect on the world in the last couple of centuries.) They considered a seven year old female competent on making decisions regarding sex, though it was raised later on (in 1886, after attempts to raise the age of consent, Delaware was the only state to retain the common law age of seven, while twenty five states set the minimum age at a mere ten.) In older times, children were not perceived in the same sense that we perceive them, but the perception was changed gradually, which is due to a great extent to industrialization, and of course sigmund freud and others came along with their theories and supported these changes in social thinking (the word adolescent itself was introduced as recently as 1904.)
Not only was it a custom in the Arab society to Engage/Marry a young girl it was also common in the Jewish society. The case of Mary the mother of Jesus comes to mind, in non biblical sources she was between 11-14 years old when she conceived Jesus. Mary had already been "BETHROED" to Joseph before conceiving Jesus. Joseph was a much older man. therefore Mary was younger than 11-14 years of age when she was "BETHROED" to Joseph. We Muslims would never call Joseph a Child Molester, nor would we refer to the "Holy Ghost" of the Bible, that "Impregnated" Mary as a "Rapist" or "Adulterer".
This paragraph was sent to me by brother Mike, who embraced Islam recently; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him: According to the Priest of Saint Mary's Catholic Church: "Mary was approximately 14 years old when she got pregnant with Jesus. Joseph, Mary's Husband is believed to be around 36. Mary was only 13 when she married Joseph. When she first was arranged with Joseph she was between 7 to 9 years old."
According to the "Oxford Dictionary Bible" commentary, Mary (peace be upon her) was was 12 years old when she became impregnated.
So if I want to be as silly and ridiculous as many of the Christians, I would respond to them by saying that Mary was psychologically and emotionally devastated for getting pregnant at a very young age. And speaking of "child molesting", since most Christians believe that Jesus is the Creator of this universe, then why did GOD allow himself to enter life through a 12-year old young girl's vagina? Please note that we Muslims love and respect Allah Almighty, Mary, Jesus and Allah's Message to the People of the Book (The Jews and Christians). In other words, we Muslims would never make fun of Christianity through such childish topic like this one as many ridiculous Christians do make fun of Islam through our Prophet's (peace be upon him) marriage.
Now here is the part for jewish culture...
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/guido_deime... A girl must be 12 years old for marriage, but a 3-year old may be betrothed with the father's approval. As for the permissibility of marriage to a minor (katanah) by coition...*Fuggedaboudit!!* as they say in the Mafia. My friend assures me that *humanitarian treatment* is the final authority. If a man did that, that is, had intercourse with a minor for purposes of marriage,it would be considered a crime, even if the father approved. A girl that young would be considered unable to make a momentous decision like that. And even if she were older than 12, if it were done by force, as if she were a Moabite captive, they would be made to divorce once the circumstances were known.
Furthermore, and very importantly, the Jews are *required* to observe the "deen hammalchut"...the laws of the country in which they reside, before applying their own halacha, or laws. So the short answer is, yes, marriage by coition is considered legal, but not with a katanah, and never by force. Betrothal to a katanah is OK, but the bride must reach puberty before actual marriage and consummation. Also, according to my own exceedingly imperfect knowledge, nowhere in the Talmud is betrothal to a minor by intercourse *recommended*. If all this were permissible in the days of the Mishna, well, those days are gone."
#215, is an orrection like an errection but w/ your mouth? (sry I couldn't resist)
Back on subject, next time you should get all melting pot up in that guys face and then kick him in the kidney. You get your deserved revenge on the the dude, and well, another drunk guy would get owned for being a retard. Win-win situation.
Why don’t Muslims Condemn terrorism? Not even one Muslim leader has come forward and condemned the Russian school massacre. A few of them grudgingly condemned the 911 attacks, but only after it was pointed out in the press that they had not done so.
You are wrong when you write that people from Iran would not dislike Americans. In fact they (and all other people from the Mid-East) hate America(ns) for its steady support of Israel. If not half of the USA government was Jewish, that would be better for the USA, as they could stop then support for Israel.
Perhaps not all Muslim people are potential terrorists. I noticed that there is much sympathy for the terrorist attacks, though. Muslim people hate Christian, Jews, and the Western life-style (the American way of life).
As far as I know, the D.C. sniper was also an Muslim.
I attribute the cause of the world's senseless acts of hate, disrespect, and spite to the human tedency to want to see things in "black and white." It is easier to make certain choices or to form beliefs when you do not know (or choose to not know) more about the involved subjects. As an example, if one believed everything on TV or on the Internet, he/she would believe that all SUVs are evil and have no beneficial uses at all; they would believe all Microsoft products are worthless. People often do not to take the time to evaluate their beliefs or more importantly, why they have the beliefs they do. I believe it is this laziness and apathy that has caused much of the strife in human history.
On the other hand, I do not believe it is necessarily true that if you become more educated or understand the origins of your own beliefs that your discontentment with others will go away. Facts and figures can only do so much--the innate spirit of a person will determine his/her relationships with the world around them.
That said, I believe Anand's encounter is no different in cause than the conflicts during the Civil Rights movement, the conflicts during the reign of Adolph Hitler, the conflicts involving sexual preferences, conflicts of religion, and conflicts of other kinds. Some conflicts in the world are started by those in power who know too well that a common enemy brings people together. What better way is there to do that than to play off people's ignorance and lack of motivation to "dig deeeper"?
The sad thing about all of this is that people measure "success" in terms of "hurdles." They think, "ok, we got over this problem! We have learned our lesson!" Years pass and the same thing happens again, but it happens in a different form. Then they say, "Ok, we've conquored this problem AND the last problem! That means we are strong!" Well, not quite. They really tried to solve the same problems twice! Those problems are really the SYMPTOMS of a bigger problem--they are NOT the cause. If you can fight the CAUSE of the problems, you will have no hurdles to jump over!
As long has humans live in America (or any other country for that matter) there will always be blind hate, disrepect, and spite in all different shapes in forms. That is human nature to a point. But until people stop, think, and realize that it is not everyone else who needs to change but it is "I" who needs to change, we are just going to keep patting ourselves on the back until the next atrocity.
Let me also say that I am your biggest fan. No one writes a technical article/review like you do...NOBODY. I would love to watch you and participate in your follow up RAID article. To be apart of something like that would truly bring meaning to my life.
Is it too late to be in your wedding? Perhaps I can be the DJ or pick up any poodle turds outside the building. I'm yours to command. Did I mention that I am a good person too? You got a friend in ME man!
194 - Posted on Sep 24, 2004 at 1:29 PM by brownguy
////You need to spend some time in that 3rd world hellhole they call India to see what makes the USA so special. If you like it there, well, good riddance :) :)///////
I live like a King in the so called hellhole. So please STFU!
194 - Posted on Sep 24, 2004 at 1:29 PM by brownguy
////You need to spend some time in that 3rd world hellhole they call India to see what makes the USA so special. If you like it there, well, good riddance :) :)///////
Please be considerate and understanding about this issue.
#197 Anand is probably from a muslim family and though he might not be muslim he probably has nothing to do with pork let alone would want to "pork his wife". Perhaps saying "make sweet beautiful love" would be more applicable considering Anand's grandeur about the whole wedding thing.
#192 I'm sorry but Islam is the bastard religion of Judaism. Don't believe me? Read the Quran/Koran and compare it to the Talmud and Torah. The only difference is good ole Mo' couldn't bare to think that the Jews were the "chosen people" (rightly so) so he concocted a religion where Jews and Christians were all wrong, Jesus didn't get crucified (contrary to what even secular historians living at the time account) and Abraham was prepared to sacrifice Ismael (supposed Father of the Arab people) instead of Isaac.
I don't care if you're religious or if you aren't but if the Torah and the story of Abraham first came into existence (at least) 2,000yrs prior to good ole Mo's story in 800AD, I'd go with the former for authenticity when it comes to religious mumbo jumbo. Then again, we can put it all aside, get wasted and go looking for "Osama's brother".
Hi Anand, Congratulations on your wedding. I've had the same thing that has happened to you happen to me many times. I'm what my parents would call an ABCD (American-born confused desi - indian). My parents are from India and ive gone there every year since i was 3, and I love it there. In fact, instead of hating Americans they tend to look at Americans as high than their own citizens.
I believe it is the arrogance and ignorance of most Americans that is the root of these problems because they simply listen to the media like zombies, and dont create their own opinions
“…..will find peace and lose this irritation and anger towards muslims and islam.”
If you read my posts #165, #177 & #181, you will see that while I explain that root of Islamic terrorism, I do not show any anger or irritation towards Muslims. The rest of the world may not know it, but Muslims are the biggest victims of Islamic terrorism.
Congrats on your wedding. You know I really care and in some way hope that my words of encouragement will someone lift me above the other geeks by creating some association to you. I can't sleep at night knowing this kind of stuff goes on in the world. I mean, your feelings were hurt and that's horrible. Heaven forbid you dwell on this for the rest of your life. You live in the melting pot of racism. We all seem to tolerate each other for face value.
Things could be better, say in France for instance.
Or you can live with all the pain like #184 does because he's just "another nigger". Please! If that's how you view yourself or perceive how others view you what's the point of getting out of bed in the morning? Especially if you've done that much service for this country.
Familiarity breeds contempt. Become familiar with the self-loathing of hate and idiocy and you will become just that.
I want to inform you that I used to be a follower of Islam. I was born into a Muslim family. The imam of my mosque indoctrinated me in Islam. I can recite the Koran from memory. My indoctrination taught me to hate everything non-Muslim. I was taught to wage jihad until the Hindu kafirs were subjugated. My imam now sits in a south Indian jail for instigating the bombing of a railway station in which, several innocent men, women and children were killed. Some of my classmates who swallowed what was fed to them are now dead, tracked down and killed in shootouts with the cops, or are rotting in jail for their crimes of terrorism.
If I was not a free thinker, a skeptic, a believer in science, evolution and common sense, I would either be dead (by the way believing I will be humping around in paradise with the virgins Allah would provide), or I would be rotting my sorry ass in jail for the crime of terrorism. I am thankful to my common sense to have walked out of that group.
I know more about Islam than you will ever know. I have since denounced that medieval faith, and am its critic. I am currently writing a book explaining the role of Islam in the spread of terrorism, past and present. It will explain the unscientific ludicrousness of the religion. The CORRECT you want me to follow is political correctness which prevents the criticism of Islam for its role in world terrorism.
By the way my buddies who ended up as Islamic terrorists, were sweet nice lads till they took the wahabi bait. They were not poor. They are from what you might consider affluent families. And finally, I would like to add that because I renouncing Islam, my Father, cousins and Muslim threatened to kill me if I did not come back to it(Islam); I do not blame them, nor bear a grudge against them, after all they are only practicing their faith.
If you want a debate, I would be happy to indulge you. I have seen the cancer from within.
Anand, you are NOT an american. you are an Indian. It does not matter how much you achieve and contribute in this country. Indians will always be second class citizens.
Damn !! Anand, this is pretty disappointing. No, I'm not talking about the "racist" incident, but about your reaction to it. I'm also an Indian, but love the US. And no, a little untoward incident like this would do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to shake either my faith or my love for America, Americans, and our institutions. This is THE MOST TOLERANT nation in the world, the most perfect society, the only "proposition nation" - one built not on ties of blood, but on ideological ones. It's tragic that you don't see this. You need to spend some time in that 3rd world hellhole they call India to see what makes the USA so special. If you like it there, well, good riddance :) :)
hey anand many congrates on the wedding, boy it was lenghty going thorugh the 183 posts most of them making me think over and over on each one of them to conclude the one word of "misunderstanding" common in most of 'em..for #181 plz take a chill pill dont get too edgy and aggitated and take my sincere advice of going and attending a single lecture or to hell with the lecture study the translation of Quran yourself and read the history, you will get all the CORRECT answers u have asked b/c believe me those facts are the inverse of the teaching of Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) have been though it was what was been practiced before his advent, take my word plz plz read one page of quarn a day and u will get the best possible answers it is upto u then to admit or regect them b/c its impossible how much the other person keeps arguing u , u wont admit a fact unless and untill u yourself go and take the pain of researching the correct facts and not the bogus ones spread around the web by iggnorants believe me brother u will find peace and lose this irritation and anger towards muslims and islam....none the less 9/11 was a great tragedy and anand it was a tragedy for u to confront an idiot a total waste on earth to say such a stupid thing, he is a disgrace to mankind not all americans.
funny. i read through to see what people posted and it seems hate is a common theme. wonder why that is. political hate, racial hate, religious hate.
how does putting down a political candidate or a religion or a race help anyone?
Anand don't let it get you down, there is still positive people in the world and even in the United States who would not have done what that guy did even if they were drunk.
I was born in Australia of an Australian Mom and American Dad. I retired from the US navy and yes, I served my country during trhe Viet Nam war. I ama white man.
So, let's cut to the chase: The Repubs hate anyone who is not a white Anglo Saxon Potestant and hate those who are not rich. Evidence: They round up of non white (mulsim and Muslim looking men) after 9/11, keep them in jail and abuse them. I won't even touch on IRAQ: I am and was opposed to the Iraq war but support our servicemen and women 1000%. They refuse to let Cuban Americans visit Cuba to see their relatives (Bush put this policy in effect 7/11/2004). How any patriotic Ameican can vote for the Al QuAeda sympathetic Bushies is beyond me: Remember the Bush family has been involved in the oil of Saudi Arabia for generations. We know the Sauddis support Al Qaeda with actions and petro dollars.
The Bushies are hiding the following: The draft will be instituted after the November 2 if Bush is elected. Hello Depression! Travel via air recently?- well now the TSA wants all your personal information. Wonder why the major airlines are hurting_US Airways, United (sorry Cat stevens), Delta, ...? Bush is NO GOOD for the USA and the world.
I am an Indian. If you were to see me, you could not tell me apart from any other of my countrymen. I have the same skin color same eyes and hair as any other Indian. But through out my life I have been discriminated against. The reason is that I am from what is considered to be the lowest cast in the cast hierarchy.
Racism is not all about color of the skin. The discrimination the low cast Hindus are subjected to in rural India makes racism in the US look trivial. Discrimination against non Muslims in Pakistan is institutionalized by their constitution with bills like the anti blasphemy law etc. Until recently Hindus in Pakistan were not allowed to vote (I am not sure if Musharaf granted them the rights yet, I think he has). The Bush men in southern Africa are treated disgracefully by their fellow black men just because they are considered “Primitive”. The treatment of women in the Muslim world etc.
Crude discrimination like the one Anand experienced is all about a group of looser’s clinging to some vestige of perceived “Superiority” in their otherwise pathetic life.
The other type of discrimination which apparently Anand did face is the more painful type. The one where people are denied jobs or promotions which they deserve due to prejudice.
Discrimination really hurts. But whining about it only makes the victory of the Prejudiced complete. One must try to raise beyond this. Take the example of people like Nelson Mandela, Colin Powel, Oprah Winfrey, K.R.Narayanan,(an Indian president from the lowest cast in the cast hierarchy), Ambedkar (the man who wrote the Indian constitution). People who rose despite all odds and beyond discrimination; you cant imagine any one yelling racial slurs at them today.
Of course most of us will never be another Oprah or Mandela, but we can do our bit to prove to the world that we too are equal. Things will hurt, but at least we can build a better life for our children. I draw hope for the future by studying the women’s liberation in the west. Western women fought prejudice to build an equal platform for themselves in the world. Though things are still not yet 100% perfect for them, things are on the right track, improving all the time.
Anand stop whining, do your bit to prove to the prejudiced (who by the way know deep down) that you are every way as good as them, if not better. There will definitely be pain and hurt along the way, but raise above it and build a better future for your children.
As a white guy I can tell you we have our share of jerks that do look only at skin color. I wish it were not so, but it is and all I can say is the majority of us try to shun those guys.
Your work and contributions should speak for themselves. But don't make the mistake of thinking only a white person can be as you speak.
There needs to be good folks with respect in their community, that stand up and let people of any (all) color know that using the word nigger, OSB or any other racist words is unacceptable and simply inappropriate. That should include the white guy(s) you most certainly refer too in your comment, Anands’ white guy and yes the brothers who likes to say “he’s my nigger” or “he’s a cracker”.
Obviously not using that kind of language will not stop these people from being what they choose, but it will not inflict the kind of pain you and Anand have experienced.
If no one else has said it Jimmy, thanks for your contributions throughout your working career, enjoy retirement.
After slogging through 183 posts I have found no understanding for what Anand was trying to say. He was trying to describe the pain of being disavowed. I use that word as a clumsy attempt to have you understand what happens when your existence - your being - your self esteem is assualted. Here is a man in the very elysian joys of being a newly wed. Reveling in the glow of who he is and the love of a woman who loves him for who he is. When a "white" person attacks all of that simply because he is darker complected with straight black hair and middle eastern features. Can you understand how that would strike at your very soul? The perpetrator, be he drunk or sober has struck a mortal blow to the spirit. Can you understand how that feels?
I did all of the "American" things. I served 20 years and 21 days in the USAF. I retired, went to college and earned a BS and MA degrees. I then worked another 19 years and 5 months for the Department of Defense as a civilian. Now, retired again and 68 years old, I'm still subjected to that pain that Anand felt. Despite all the "American" things I have done with my life - just because of the color of my skin - I am just another "nigger" to some "white" people. Trust me people. That hurts.
Anand - never give up or give in to those who would destroy your personhood. Know - the pain will never go away. I have 68 years sprinkled with that pain.
That drunk guy was an idiot. It is too bad that morons like that guy have the power to effect honest citizens such as yourself. Only an idiot would target a whole group of people as retaliation for 9/11. I think that it is sad that these coward terrorists that kill innocent people use religion to justify their hate, but this is not new. Christians and Jews are not any better. Their history is full of vile and horrible things done in the name of religion. Religion is not to blame, the people commiting the crimes are. Fortunately, for the most part, European christianity moved past that behavior when it left the middle ages. Many Middle Eastern countries are still in a middle ages of sorts. They need a renaissance of their own.
There have been a lot of people on here bashing America. America does more for other countries and other people than any other country in the world. We give more foreign aid to other countries than all other countries in the world combined. We accept more foreign immigrants than any other country. We have millions of people of middle eastern descent living in our country that left their countries to seek a better life. They came to America because no other country would give them the opportunity that America would. Those from foreign countries that are bashing America have no idea what living in America is like. I lived in a third world country where people have nothing, and things such as shelter and food are a daily concern. Very few people in America have that concern. America has its problems but it has far less than most of the world. Those in the middle east that see our culture and hate America are jealous that their countries are not as strong or powerful or rich as America. Their governments are corrupt and live off their citizens. Instead of using their time to build up their own people they want to drag America down with them.
I am not spreading hate. I am pointing out the root of Islamic hate.
I want a straight answer from “enlightened” people like you; Can you deny the fact that the “Prophet” Mohammed slept with a 9 year old child? Can you deny that he did not commit mass murder? Or he had his opponents assassinated?
If we have to get down to it, I could quote from the Koran and other Islamic scriptures to prove my point. I can point out the source of Islamic terrorism right to the teachings of Islam i.e. the Wahabi doctrine.
Let us see who is the ignorant? You are living in a delusion that OBL does not derive his inspiration from Islam. EDUCATCE YOURSELF DUDE.
#165 & #177. Seriously I don't have the time to educate ignorant people like yourself. It is pointless to post anything in this forum beacuse obvously it makes no difference. All It does is make me think less of all these people mud slinging at each other. It is people like 165 and 177 that spread hate and anger and ignorance. Grow up, this is not a pissing contest!
Are you aware that no Muslim leader condemned the recent terrorist incident in Russia, where over 300 innocent children were brutally murdered? This indicates the tactical approval many Muslims harbor of these terrorist incidents. After all leaders reflect public opinion.
# 97
An impartial analysis of the life of the "Prophet" Mohammed, the founder of Islam, indicates that he is nothing but a terrorist; the forerunner of all the Islamic terrorists scurrying around nowadays.
Heard of a religion designed by a pervert who rapes a 9 year old girl? Married an older woman for her money, or slit the throats of several hundred Jews, who would have nothing to do with his new religion? A man who had his critics assassinated?
Do you think this religion will catch on? Well, it has.....it is called Islam! The pervert who founded it is called "Prophet" Mohammed!
Next time you go to Iran ask a local what they think of Jews. Then you will see hate. Ask them if they ever met one? Ask them how they know to hate them? Normal life? Different customs? Ask someone over there to condem some of the things done in the name of Islam and see what happens. Read some of the text books about history. See what you think about it then.
Islam takes the greatest gift we got, "free will" and shuts the door on it. It easy to become a Muslim (they teach you the Quran AFTER you convert) but they have the right to murder you if you change your mind and want to leave. Enlightened yet?
You are a complete Idiot. You display your Ignorance of history.
“I call on Sikhs, Muslims and Hindus to unite only than can we be a powerful force”.
Do you know what happened to the Sikhs under Muslim rule? Ever heard of the martyrdom of the Sikh Guru? Ever heard of the destruction of Hindu temples and suppression of Hindus by Muslim rulers or Muslim Invaders? Do the names Aurangazeb, Mohammed Gawri etc ring a bell? Are you aware of the millions of Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs massacred during the communal violence that followed the partitioning of India (A genocide that makes the Nazi holocaust pale in comparison) ? Are you aware of the hundreds of Sikh’s killed in the riots that followed the death of Indira Ghandi? Or the thousands of Hindu Pundits killed by Muslims in Kashmir? Heard of the Gujarat riots?
Clean up your own house, right the wrongs you have done to each other, then you may consider the wrongs done by others
Your the exact kind of bonehead that feeds anger. Worst part is, you are so simple as to think "the West" or "White males" are to blame for
for the "death and horror around the world".
Seems most countries were hard at that long before our 200 year old country had much international influence. Thats not to say the U.S. hasn't made mistakes and won't in the future, but you can count whatever luck stares you and your country have, that the U.S. is generally a non-aggressor nation.
And if you don't believe that, ask yourself what country or for that matter 5 countries of any region in the world could withstand a truely agressive and ruthless U.S.
I won't try to explain that no other country even comes close to giving as much money or capital goods to nations in trouble as the U.S. And I wouldn't try to explain to you that americans, including White-Western-Males, have no deficit in morals or heart as compared to someone as enlighted as yourself. Americans simply have fought for what they have and will not shy away from any SOB who thinks he can "take the power back".
I suggest you bring all your friend with all thier balls if you think you can!
Hey, at least I learned *something* from all this. I though Anand was of Indian decent. Come to find out he's Iranian decent. Not that it really matters, but it's good to know a little more about the wiz-kid that has been preaching the gospel of computer hardware for so many years! For what it's worth, Anand, I think you're a great guy and are more of an American than many of us. Hell, you're living the American Dream!
On a side note, this is one more reason for the Qua-ram and Bible to condemn drunkeness. As bad as the whole 9/11 situation was, not to mention the US retaliation, more people are killed every year by drunk drivers than by both combined. If anyone actually reads this, please give up alcohol, or at the very least drink in moderation. Drinking to get drunk is dumber than buying software and hardware without doing any research - and that's pretty freaking dumb. :)
Bleh 168. White males have caused so much death and horror around the world. Go to almost any country brown, black, yellow. India, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq we have all been raped up the ass by colonialist, racialist oppressors. This is our common thread and it is something whites will never understand. To walk in your own cities as a human being with the rights of an animal. I have no pity for your people. Just look at America's history. Genocide followed by enslavement. Can't you respect or get along with any race?
People say that was 50/100/200/whatever number of years ago but those scars remain. The amount of wealth taken out of these countries borders on ridiculous and their self-esteem has been ruined. Why are there white models on every billboard in Asia and Western companies raping for profits all over the world?
We have to take the power back. Sadly that is what the West has made this world. A war. I call on Sikhs, Muslims and Hindus to unite only than can we be a powerful force.
Especially Hindu's. We have no balls. Anand how did you take that crap from that redneck worm? I would have dropped his ass right there and then. If white liberals wish to join us, so be it. You are the only people with any morals or heart in Western society. It is time for a new world order where all are truely equal.
Anand, as a Indian myself I know exactly how you feel. Dude don't let that drunk mofo ruin your fun. You are a well respected and talented guy. Just brush the haters off. Good Luck bro.
hey anand-
don't know if you're still reading this but wanted to say first I've been visiting your site since it was a little baby, attempting to break out and make a name for itself among the many. so far so good.
as for your experience, i can say that i have felt the same thing. no i am not muslim or even dark-skinned, but a white male.
i grew up in a strict vendanta hindu system, spending a number of years in india and learning most of the scriptures including the gita, bhagavatam, etc. Some of the teachings are indeed clearly anti-western, which has always been represented as focussing solely on the materialistic benefits rather than those that are spiritual. in a sense, i can see how certain muslim extremists would interpret their teachings as justification to do whatever is necessary to protect their culture and people from the influences of the west.
this extremism is the same ignorance, although in a different form, that you experienced. we as americans have the same responsibility to educate our people to tolerate and accept these foreign cultures and people that the people of muslim countries should have to educate their own about american people and cultures. it is obvious that failure exists on both sides.
i have experienced racism first-hand, just casually walking down a street downtown and having a bunch of "minority" young men loudly voice as I walked by their distaste for the white man. naturally i ignored their crap, but as with you, it made me think. it caused me to wonder next time their's a vote, am i going to vote to give minorities exceptions? but wait, who is the minority anyway? things have changed, and i think a lot of white folks are getting a little bit tired of having nothing to claim pride in.
just as 3dfx was once viewed as the powerhouse of the video card industry, the white man was seen as having been born with the silver spoon. no breaks were to be given and any laws that could be created to chip away at that percieved priviledge was gladly accepted as the politically-correct thing to do. however, this is no longer the case. in many areas, caucasians are no longer the majority yet they still have to deal with laws and regulations that are put into place solely to aid what was previously considered the minority groups.
its hard to find a bumper sticker that says "caucasian and proud!" or hear people go to a cultural event that displays with pride, historical cultural practices of the caucasian. these are just not things that "white people do". we go to events celebrating OTHER cultures, made of people wearing clothing from OTHER cultures, playing instruments and singing in OTHER languages, about the pride of history of ANOTHER country. I can go on.
The point is that there is a gap in culture when it comes to most caucasians and that gap is bound to be filled with something unfortunate if not attended to. I believe many ignorant caucasians like to mock and put down other race simply because they really dont have anything to take pride in. Surely there are cultures that come from individual european countries, but most caucasians are made of up at least 2 or 3 different sources so no one culture is THE culture.
This big white empty space needs to be filled with something that has substance and I dont really believe it has to be anything cultural or country-based. Its really all about education. If we can take the good and the valuable from each culture that is 'imported' into the US by its immigrants, then we will all share the benefits. But as long as individuals from other countries continue to huddle into their own little communal or cultural groups, and in doing so distancing themselves from the rest of us, there will be a lingering discomfort among the general white public in regards to just how American our current wave of immigrants really are.
"To Hameed Post#5
"BTW Anand, when you said "My mom is a muslim" I assume your father isn't? How could they get married then?"
Hameed, the reason you people live in crap is because you think like that, but that's ok, soon all of you will be living in democracy or be dead.
Seriously dude, they went to fucking City Hall and
signed marriage papers, moved in together had a baby, thats how. You know, non-muslims are homosapince too."
If you know any piece of religion, you do know that in some religions it is forbidden to marry outside the religion. If you are a hard-lined jew, muslim, catholic or whatever, it is often impossible, from parents pressure or whatever, to marry anyone from a distant religion. The question Hameed asked was a question, not an insult, as you took it.
Not all countries have freedom of religion, but following your own religion isn't exactly illegal, as long as it doesn't break any other laws.
I've seen a lot of disturbing posts here. You guys are too sencetive. So you were called Osama or ignorant, big deal. I use to get my ass beat down because of my nationality. You should have kicked his butt or told him to go back to his trailer park.
It's not like you don't pay your fucking taxes.
To Hameed Post#5
"BTW Anand, when you said "My mom is a muslim" I assume your father isn't? How could they get married then?"
Hameed, the reason you people live in crap is because you think like that, but that's ok, soon all of you will be living in democracy or be dead.
Seriously dude, they went to fucking City Hall and
signed marriage papers, moved in together had a baby, thats how. You know, non-muslims are homosapince too.
It is a common delusion in the Muslim world that somehow America and Israel are to be blamed for terrorism around the world. As pointed out above Islamic terrorism predates the existence of America as a nation. If you read about the life and deeds of the so-called “Prophet” Mohammed, you will realize that he was nothing more than the first Islamic terrorist. An ancient version of OBL.
What good can come out of a religion designed by a pervert who rapes a 9 year old girl? Or slit the throats of several hundred Jews, who would have nothing to o with his new religion? A man who had his critics assassinated?
Do your own research into the life of the first Islamic terrorist (the so called prophet). You will find out what I state to be true.
First congrats on the wedding, I personally wish you a long life & many healthy babys.
As for the dork with the big mouth... my ancestors came from Ireland & suffered many of the same abuses... pity the guy, as he really has no idea what it means to be American
God (or Allah if you prefer) bless you and your new wife...may you have many happy years together... take care man :-)
I am saddened you had to experience the ugly way some people expess themselves.
I go through a slightly similar situation where I live (Texas) due to my dress and accent being different from some of the people who live around me. I am a native of California....and it IS fact that I speak with a different accent and I DO dress in a different way (generally shorts, cotton liesure type shirt and Birkenstock sandals) and it is quite often people here feel the need to belittle this fact. (they tend to call my sandals Jesus sandals :>) ) People where I live tend to like to make negative remarks about my home state, when in fact most of whom I ask have never been there, or who have just flown through LAX on the way somewhere and somehow assume that since I am from California I am from L.A., when in fact I have not been to Los Angeles in over 20 years.
I am from an isolated area where the redwoods meet the Pacific Ocean and it is a little slice of heaven; beautiful, quiet, peaceful and clean.
Very soon we will be back on that coastline and enjoying peace and quiet once again.
Take care of yourself and enjoy your new life; I have now been married almost 20 years and it remains to have been the smartest move I have ever made and I have no regrets what so ever. Good luck to you both.
Anand, i dunno what to say, shit happens. As for the rest of you guys, keep posting, its halliarious. It seems like everyone takes for granted thier freedom of speech on this forum. As an American I am proud to live in my country; no other country provides the freedoms and economic opportunity as the US does.
I find it funny that so many people say Americans are ignorant....so ironic...I personally am jaded to prejudice remarks and can't take them seriously. I dunno why you guys all act up on such stupid posts.
Congratulations on creating a great site that I visit often.
Generally, feelings get hurt all the time. It is regretful. But the handwringing from weak-willed and truly ignorant responders to this blog indicates that a bit of historical perspective is needed.
Mr. Joseph Farah tells the history of terrorism as a problem for the United States of America since the first congress...
Most Americans probably think the Islamic terrorists declared war on the United States Sept. 11, 2001.
Actually, it started a long time before - right from the birth of the nation.
In 1784, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Benjamin Franklin were commissioned by the first Congress to assemble in Paris to see about marketing U.S. products in Europe.
Jefferson quickly surmised that the biggest challenge facing U.S. merchant ships were those referred to euphemistically as "Barbary pirates."
They weren't "pirates" at all, in the traditional sense, Jefferson noticed. They didn't drink and chase women and they really weren't out to strike it rich. Instead, their motivation was strictly religious. They bought and sold slaves, to be sure. They looted ships. But they used their booty to buy guns, ships, cannon and ammunition.
Like those we call "terrorists" today, they saw themselves engaged in jihad and called themselves "mujahiddin."
Why did these 18th-century terrorists represent such a grave threat to U.S. merchant ships? With independence from Great Britain, the former colonists lost the protection of the greatest navy in the world. The U.S. had no navy - not a single warship.
Jefferson inquired of his European hosts how they dealt with the problem. He was stunned to find out that France and England both paid tribute to the fiends - who would, in turn, use the money to expand their own armada, buy more weaponry, hijack more commercial ships, enslave more innocent civilians and demand greater ransom.
This didn't make sense to Jefferson. He recognized the purchase of peace from the Muslims only worked temporarily. They would always find an excuse to break an agreement, blame the Europeans and demand higher tribute.
After three months researching the history of militant Islam, he came up with a very different policy to deal with the terrorists. But he didn't get to implement until years later.
As the first secretary of state, Jefferson urged the building of a navy to rescue American hostages held in North Africa and to deter future attacks on U.S. ships. In 1792, he commissioned John Paul Jones to go to Algiers under the guise of diplomatic negotiations, but with the real intent of sizing up a future target of a naval attack.
Jefferson was ready to retire a year later when what could only be described as "America's first Sept. 11" happened.
America was struck with its first mega-terror attack by jihadists. In the fall of 1793, the Algerians seized 11 U.S. merchant ships and enslaved more than 100 Americans.
When word of the attack reached New York, the stock market crashed. Voyages were canceled in every major port. Seamen were thrown out of work. Ship suppliers went out of business. What Sept. 11 did to the U.S. economy in 2001, the mass shipjacking of 1793 did to the fledgling U.S. economy in that year.
Accordingly, it took the U.S. Congress only four months to decide to build a fleet of warships.
But even then, Congress didn't choose war, as Jefferson prescribed. Instead, while building what would become the U.S. Navy, Congress sent diplomats to reason with the Algerians. The U.S. ended up paying close to $1 million and giving the pasha of Algiers a new warship, "The Crescent," to win release of 85 surviving American hostages.
It wasn't until 1801, under the presidency of Jefferson, that the U.S. engaged in what became a four-year war against Tripoli. And it wasn't until 1830, when France occupied Algiers, and later Tunisia and Morocco, that the terrorism on the high seas finally ended.
France didn't leave North Africa until 1962 - and it quickly became a major base of terrorism once again.
What's the moral of the story? Appeasement never works. Jefferson saw it. Sept. 11 was hardly the beginning. The war in which we fight today is the longest conflict in human history. It's time to learn from history, not repeat its mistakes.
That said, as an American living abroad for nearly ten years, I find it increasingly difficult to defend the US to foreign criticism, as I find so much more to critique myself. In fact, I find myself increasingly glad that I have largely escaped the madness that has descended upon my country, though it wrenches my heart to read the online US newspapers every day.
Sept. 11 has thrown the US into a fit of hysteria that will last a generation, and the entire world is now, and will long pay dearly as the country--the world's proverbial 800 lb. gorilla--thrashes mindlessly in hurt, fear and revenge.
A pall of anxiety and fear has descended on the world with those attacks, as we have all come to realize the possibilities for destruction at terrorits' disposal. That moron lashed out in reaction to this, pathetically, but inevitably.
As so many people have empathized with Anand, I will forgo doing more of the same and counter part of post 154 with a few of my own experiences.
The Bay Area (which includes Silicon Valley) is nowhere free from such 'BS'. I grew up there, went through middle school, high school, and college there. There's plenty of prejudice and discrimination by both majorities and minorities.
While in highschool, there was a definite racial identification with almost every group/clique/gang. And all of the violent outbreaks during my highschool years were race-related in the sense that it was something like Latinos vs Blacks, Whites vs Asians, or whatever.
After highschool, I had hoped that attending UC Berkeley would save me from such racial tensions, but it didn't. There were plenty of Asian-only and White-only cliques. Not to mention I had met plenty of students, who despite being born and raised in the Bay Area, avoided inter-racial contact and openly advocated against inter-racial dating.
While I was in school, I also interned at many companies in the Bay Area, where I also saw such 'BS'. Like at a software company that had an almost entirely Asian staff except for one White programmer (not me). There were many group meetings with him that would switch entirely into Chinese. And sometimes they'd even make fun of him in Chinese, and he wouldn't even know.
And I'm only 22 years old, so these aren't events that happened in some distant past.
Prejudice is everywhere. And it will never go away. You just have to hope that a little less of that prejudice gets spread to the posterity.
Unless there is something I'm missing, the situation with Anand and the drunkard doesn't seem like a big deal. I doubt that once that guy sobered up that he was going to go out and hurt random Middle-Eastern people. So like post 154 said, live your live Anand, and don't let the incident get you down.
Individuals are smart, but people are frightened and ignorant. The common fear of terror isn't going to go away as long as the media and the politicians have anything to do about it. Alcohol brings it to the surface and when people are scared we're all one moment away from mob-violence.
Breathe easy that you walked away, but these feelings are more prevalent than we'd hope - they're just below the surface.
When the enemy is everywhere and nowhere, when we're led to believe we're in imminent danger, when all we have to go on is an ethinicity... there's little else we can do but regard that ethinicity with distrust, fear and in the extreme, hatred.
BTW, I'm a white Brit living in the USA. I live in Silicon Valley, and I'm happy to say I work and play in a very diverse area, pretty much free of all this BS. But I've been to more white-centric parts of the US, and it's not pretty.
Live your life Anand. Don't let the hate get you down.
I don't see where the connection that seems to be automatically made between ignorance and political beliefs on a large part of these comments comes from, but maybe that is my ignorance.
Anand
Congratulations on the wedding. Shame slightly spotted by the incident, but these issues happen as before diamonds are polished they have rough edges that need smoothing as well. After moving to England as a babe, and spending the rest of my life there, and whilst contracting in NYC at the time of the awful disaster 9/11, then returning home, l was more alienated as a consequence of being a muslim and being British!. Amazing all the contracting roles dried up instantly, and all of a sudden l did not belong!, at the time l vividly recall thinking how proud l was to be British and always felt tremendous loyalty to my country. I have since settled in Orlando, FL - BUT still miss my home!. That is life and we have to learn to raise above it all. Keep educating the people of this world, and ensure we continue to learn in the process. Good Luck and Keep you chin high.
Anand, this guy was a jerk; a big, stupid, bigoted, ignorant, close-minded, un-American jerk.
Freedom of speech is also, fortunately, the freedom to be a jerk and there are some fine examples of that species here. We need jerks to remind us of the democratic (small 'd') values of tolerance and respect for others' opinions. It only becomes a problem when the rest of us allow the jerks to dominate political life or the media or speech.
As for myself, I am a generic white American who married a fine woman of Japanese-Portuguese descent; who had Black business partner; who had a Chicano spiritual mentor; who has had Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, and several varieties of pagan friends. A major lesson that I’ve learned is that any time I think I know everything and have the 'perfect' and 'only' solution is when I am riding for a big big fall. If I don't know about other people and their culture and religion and ways of thinking I will be narrow, close-minded, and ultimately incomplete human being. If I am a leader and don’t learn from them then I will do one-sided thinking and 'stay on message' no matter how wrong it is which will only lead to mistrust, disillusionment, and ineffectiveness.
When I was living in Hawaii, where there is no ethnic majority, I heard some quite disparaging and unflattering things about 'haoles', or white people, from the same kind of un-American jerks. It stung. But that was my home at the time and I loved it. I went home to my mixed-race wife and talked about it. When she and I first got married there was quite a bit of controversy in my family. We had to talk about that, too. We had to deal with it all. Easy? No. Necessary? Yes. That is part of living in a multi-cultural society. There will always be bigots. There will always be those who know the ‘right’ way to think and the ‘right’ thing to do. And it will be: for them.
There is no greater punishment for a bigot than to let him (or her) live in that miasma of negativity and hate that they call righteous. There will be no happiness for that person until all his hates are vanquished. And yet if one is conquered there will always rise another and another. It is a cycle of unending hatred and misery 24/7 and they’re welcome to it. Just don’t try to foist if off on me. Or you.
Hang in, Anand. Let it sting; talk about it, including with us, but don’t let that cretin cause you to shrink your horizons.
Name calling and now death threats? Come on. Anandtech readers are better than this. Any clear thinking person would disagree with this Richard fellow but the rhetoric against him is terrible. Please,lets all lighten up and disagree more politely.
There is a name for people like the drunk, i think the word is Knobhead...
Also i read what you where saying about the fact you dont walk about with an AK47, maybe thats the problem? You dont blend in with all americans with AK47's or other automatic guns being carried :)
The problem is that people fear what they dont know, and the average american (or brit for that matter) doesnt know what muslims do and so fear them.
The guy was drunk and said what he felt. It’s really tough for people to think like they should. Inner city blacks are thought of as gang members and such, doesn't mean they all steal - but what you're dealing with is a perception problem. Who are 90% of the terrorists? Middle East. So there you go. It goes both ways, not all Americans are loud and obnoxious, but Europeans sure thinks so. This is perception, or racial stereotyping if you will... and it isn't going away. It isn't fair, but people dying every day from terrorists isn’t fair either. I'm a white American and by default I'm racist against blacks, I don't like that - but that’s the way I'm portrayed. One last thing to all the negative American comments - sure, we have problems and we screw up, but ask yourself this: Would you rather have the USA as the dominant force in the world, or Russia/Iraq/Saudi/N.Korea/Etc? If one of them had our power, this post wouldn't exist, believe it.
Wow, I just took the time to read all of these comments, and can say from a truly unbiased standpoint that there are a lot of good points here and a couple of redneck idiots who don't know what they're talking about.
For you, Richard... or should I call you Dick? Yeah, Dick, it's a hardware review site with a weblog on it. Since there is now a pro-american anti-racist statement on it, it's obviously pursuing a political agenda, becuase you know computer hardware has a lot to do with politics, right?
As for the rest of you, keep up the argument, disagreement is what this country was founded on (see congress, the opposite of progress), and only by reading the opinions of others can we truly learn.
Or something like that, I guess this is the problem with freedom of speech.
#143 People don't ask why 911 happened any more than they ask why the Oklahoma city bombing happened. Because there is no answer that can justify what happened. In reality, both were an attempt by self-deluded individuals to cause a revolution by slaughtering innocents.
To say that 911 happened because of the U.S. presence in Saudi Arabia or Palestinian struggle is to buy into a lunatic's argument. Go back and see how skillfully Hitler, Stalin and Saddam manipulated the world around them by telling the big lie and sticking to it.
If we cut off all support for Israel and withdrew our presence in the Middle East, do you think that would appease the religious zealots like al-Qaeda? No, there would be some other reason that we are at fault and we would continue to pay.
why don't Americans stop to ask themselves WHY 911 happened? The fact is that America is hopelessly biased towards Israel. The Palestinian question is the major source of conflict between the West and the Muslim world.
Al-Quaeda object to American military presence in holy lands (Saudi Arabia), America's unstinting support of Israel's illegal occupation. While you can disagree with their methods, you can't really deny the validity of their grieviances.
American's and the West seem to think that Palestianian parents raise their children to be suicide bombers. They never ask what desperate lives must this people lead that they must resort to this.
Iraq is a clear example of American arrogance - no t only does GWB not count the Iraqi civilians he murders as a result of his unjust war, the average American doesn't see anything wrong with that. iraqi life is cheap. Just as if you ask Americans how many died in Vietnam they will tell you 58000 Americans - forgetting or never knowing the 2-3 million Vietnamese who died.
Whenever American's commit atrocities like My Lai or Abu Gharib, American's say it is an aberration. The rest of the world sees it for what it is.
There is a reason America is more loathed and feared around the world today than ever before - by muslim and non-muslim alike. American should ask themselves why.
Greg, as first poster you also stated it very well. To paraphrase shakespear/star trek 6 people are afraid of change. Afraid of the unknown. They cling to what they know, not becuase its better, but because its what they are used to/comfortable with. For those people that have died in the middle east, all they want to put food on their table, roof over thier heads, and have a future for their children. Yet people continue to set off car bombs, take schools hostage, ect for what? It is easier for them to commit acts of violence than it is for them to embrace the undiscovered country and give peace a chance.
I live in dallas, tx and work for TI. I am greatful that we have a diverse poppulation and great community. For Sept. 11th it seemed that the entire city went out to enjoy all the public events to celebrate "community" and Humanity. It was a great uplifting feeling.
Anand, all the good feelings that you have right now, especially when you look at your wife, and remember that people like him don't have that. Thats whats trully sad.
Anand, please....since you're not a history major, let's just look at what truly "unwelcome" has meant in a historical context.
To be truly "unwelcome" has meant having your home or business destroyed. "Unwelcome" meant being bullied or coerced. "Unwelcome" meant never rising to a higher position or status, having your money or land taken illegally. "Unwelcome" meant armed people in the middle of the night came into your home and took your loved ones away.
"Unwelcome" has meant african slave trade, kristallnacht, the holocaust, the KKK, lynchings, burnings, wholesale destruction of lives and property. Unwelcome means Pakistanis being murdered in the streets of Germany by neo-nazis and the cops, who agree with the nazis, look the other way. I could go on for hours... Need I remind you that these are all REAL things that happened to REAL people who felt REAL pain, just as REAL as your episode with the drunk. Imagine if that drunk had a gun and could've used it without any consequences. Then you will know what "unwelcome" has meant throughout history.
Let's look at what "unwelcome" does NOT mean. "Unwelcome" does NOT mean your own business, lots of friends, freedom of movement, decision and speech, safe legal ways to express your culture, religon, and a big fat wallet. I would assume you have all of those.
Listen, I'm sorry you ran into a jerk, we all do. The talent of a jerk is to find our soft underbelly, and exploit it. And he did. So f--ing what? Can you handle it? Are you a man? Are you an American? These are questions we can only answer ourselves.
I would advise you to take a page from the ancsetors of your culture that preceeded you, and who dealt with more racism than you ever will- draw a line around your family, your work and your community of friends and loved ones and take care of them the best you can. Then shut up and let God, Allah, or Vishnu do the rest. It worked for them.
I have experienced only one racist incident in the past 1 year I have lived in the USA. I consider this to be a compliment to the US. I have lived and worked in Europe and in the Middle East. The amount of racism in Europe is much higher than in the US.
The Middle East (read Arab heartland) reeks with intolerance for anything non Muslim; in Saudi Arabia and the other Muslim states I worked in, no one is permitted to build churches or temples and propagate faiths other than Islam. You might have noticed that a few Muslim gentlemen had a problem with a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim; these guys do not represent a minority opinion in the Muslim world.
Like someone said, it is a human problem. The guy is an idiot. There are idiots like that in society. It is a fact, and we as people must work towards educating these idiots (how about some education on world religion at like around grade 3 or 4, the age when they start critically thinking about the world around them, and are exposed to sensitive issues and have a developing sense of self?).
There needs to be more education. However, in your case Anand, it appears that it was an adult who said this? How unfortunate. I know how it feels to be discriminated and treated differently because of things beyond your control, as I have been through racism. As said, it is imperative to teach children about the world around us, different people, their beliefs, and teach them to learn to appreciate differences. This education should be available and taught to everyone.
It must be even more frustrating for you for this to happen when you are having such a great time, and a very contributing member of America; to know that there are idiots who insult you based on your differences.
After 9/11, it appears that discrimination against people with brown skin. The idiots who commit such heinous acts are, well, idiots. I am sure that the chances that this would have happened would have been much lower had that person gone through some sort of education regarding the world's people during childhood. I do not mean a silly little introduction, what I mean is a rigerous understanding and acceptance and appreciation of the world around them and all the people who live in it.
Unfortunately, the media also has been idiotic in its typical stereotype of the terrorist. I am talking about the news. CNN is a good example. They are a good news organization, but some of their thoughtless portrayals speak of their inner idiocy.
I think the government should also direct its efforts in cracking down on racism.
All in all, racism is something that darkens the world. It is up to us to educate the children, the young ones who will be shaping the world in the years to come, about the people of the world, equality, teach them to learn to live with and appreciate the differences among people, and live in co-operation, peace, and harmony. It is as simple as that. Education is the key in preventing racism.
On a side note, the education would not only solve the racism issue, but also other differences, like sexism and the such. It can all be stopped with education.
#123 - Richard: How did you hit a nerve? We are all readers on this site and are in no way affiliated to this site so if AnandTech shows bias, which has never happened, in their reviews we will always be here to critize them. Remember the CPU review that Kristopher K. did and thousands of readers were mad at AnandTech because it was an unfair comparison. Guess what AnandTech did, they fixed the review with another article and everything is back to normal now.
Where have you noticed bias in AnandTech articles due to Anand's political thinking. Were you drunk when you were posting your comments?
And don't post bullshit like "Hmmm. I sense too much protest here about my comments. Maybe I hit a nerve. The truth can be painful at times but I think if you embrace it fully you will be a much happier person."
You know your comments were dumb because Anandtech doesn't mix their personal thoughts with their professional reviews. THIS IS ANAND's WEBLOG and he can talk about whatever he want. This is not part of the "professional" part of the site.
there are alot of idiots in this world, not just this country,but every country and theres not much we can do about it eccept teach the one who will learn and pray for those who will not.
First of all congratulations on your wedding, I have been happily married for 7 years and highly recommend it :)
Second of all, I am sorry some dummy made an offensive remark to you, it is inexcusable. However, while we should all we can do to condem this type of behavior and try to convince people not to do it, I must say I am a bit surprised you have not had this happen before and that it has had such an emotional impact on you. Like you, I grew up in Raleigh, though I am was in middle school in the earily 80's. I went to a mostly black school (because at the time it was the only magnet school in the county) and I was acosted many times, and pushed around several times. Since I have been an adult, I have been called a "dirty howlie" (white person) in Hawaii, and a "Damned American" (or the local equivelant) in the Phillipines. I have had several different drunk people try to pick fights with me in the US in Raleigh and Los Angeles. Really, no matter where you go, I think there are some percent of the people who are mean and angry, and if you are around drunk people the percentage is much higher. It really sounds to me like a drunk looking to pick a fight and nothing more. Of course that does not excuse what he did and as I said before we should do what we can to prevent such things, but I do think you should try to be a little prepared for such things and not let them get to you so much. I doubt most people will live through their lives without such things happening unless they are never around drunk strangers.
When a person claims to be a victim, I have come to think they are whining, wanting something for nothing. Just what is it you really want, Anand?
I ask again, why did you write your blog? Why do you think it belongs here?
#97 It is not ignorance that I believe almost all terrorists are Muslim, it is denial on yours. You have this intellectual facade but have not examined the facts yourself.
The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam have been quiet for almost three years and have not committed ANY acts of terrorism in that time.
The Irish Republican Army has not been considered a terrorist group since July 2002, although they do have two splinter groups that are still active.
If you look at the numbers, Islamic terrorist groups are the major majority.
Again, I do not believe all Muslims are terrorists, in fact the extremists are a small minority.
Nick, I agree 100%. I too have a mostly German herritage and I've noticed an interesting phenomenon. The same people that, rightfully so, say we should not look badly upon Muslims due to 9/11, are some of the same people who give me a sideward, almost disgusted look when they learn of my herritage.
Interesting is it not? Humankind is a strange beast.
In the weeks and months after 9/11 I was amazed at the anti-Arab/anti-Muslim sentiment I was hearing from the kinds of people that I had previously thought were nice and normal. I was working on a TV show at the time and a lot of the crew members were laughing themselves sick making cruel Arab jokes. It really shocked me that seemingly intelligent people couldn't differentiate between al Qaeda and the Arab population at large. Then again, it's happened before. During World War II, most Americans considered all the Germans evil, not just the Nazis. Even now, as someone with mostly German heritage, it disappoints me to hear people offhandedly refer to Germans as Nazis. I guess some people just can't see more than one side to anything. It's mostly their loss, but it's also unfortunate that the rest of us have to put up with it.
My roots, generations back are Tamil and Indian. My parents, and their parents, were born and raised in Mauritius, where the population is a total ethnic and religious mosaic. My Dad was raised Hindu and my Mom Catholic, despite her having a Hindu mother. We've lived in Canada since 1975 and have had dual citizenship since 1979, when I was 6.
Canada is a great place to live, but we have our share of racists here so I'm familiar with Anand's experience as well as the sense of being considered to be potential terrorist, during visits to the US.
With my diverse background, and my own agnosticism, the notion of "loving" one's country has always intrigued me. I've often asked, "What is a country?". A "people" is simpler to define: common beliefs, language, societal norms, but country is tougher.
I've never figured it out, but it vexes me every time I hear (or read, in the case of Anand) someone say, "I love my country". What is it you love? Are you sure that your neighbour would agree with how you define your country and see that which you love in his own conception of the same country? Is what you love unique to your country? A very esoteric question, but one that I think everyone should consider given that some of us are willing to "die", or worse yet, "kill" for our country? Imagine a world was no one was willing to do either?
Secondly, while I wouldn't wish Anand's experience on him, his comments seem to indicate that he was blissfully unaware of the hateful forces that live just under the skin of all societies. As such, it was probably good that his "frame of reference" has been "fixed". I applaud him writing about this.
Lastly, 9/11 was a tragedy, but I can't accept, intellectually, that anyone of voting age, who lives in a democracy, is "innocent". If one votes for a government, one is indirectly responsible for it's actions. In fact, one could easily argue that citizens of democracy are more valid targets than citizens of a dictatorship since the latter have so say. To accept that the citizen is innocent is to do away with democracy.
At any rate, I fully agree with the posters that expressed the sentiment that we, as a species have to get around our artifical notions of "belonging", including county and religion, to recognize that we all just want to live our lives in peace. As such, I suggest Anand change his headline to, "I AM A PERSON". Those of you in the US have a choice to make soon. To my way of thinking, your choice is: Who will move my country towards what I want the world to be, not what I think it can be.
Simplistic? Yes, but also the only viable starting point.
The USA is a country that belongs to all its citizens. Don't let your political leaders (Republican or Democrat) change that by whipping up unthinking anti-muslim or racist feelings for their short term political gain.
When people classify each other on the basis of religion, race, and even nationality ... it only divides us. I consider myself first and foremost, a human being. It’s not something I am proud of either; most human beings are ignorant, arrogant apes. Heck, we give apes a bad name. Little has changed since the stone-ages. We find a reason to divide ourselves and to kill each other….
Anand, you need to worry about not fitting in because of your skin colour / ethnicity. If you look at the population growth rate in different part of the world, the Indian sub-continent has the highest. I'll bet that eventually everyone will be brown, or some combination of Indian-Chinese.
On a shorter time scale, and looking closer to America, the influx from porous southern border if surely mean that most Americans will be some shade of brown and speak a language other than English as their first language. Most people probably can’t tell the difference between a Mexican and an Indian.
Congratulations on the wedding. I think you should ignore the drunk guy. It was a harmless comment, I bet it seemed funny to him at the time. I doubt he said that to hurt you. If it were me, I'd brush it off and wouldn't think about it. No point letting a drunkard ruin your day.
Hmmm. I sense too much protest here about my comments. Maybe I hit a nerve. The truth can be painful at times but I think if you embrace it fully you will be a much happier person.
My bad. I forgot that you, Mr. Anonmymous #114, are the sole proprietor of all that is true, correct, and wise. Everyone else needs to "go get some education".
Right...
The U.S. foreign policies are the sole generator of terrorism around the world... Sure.
The U.S. is the only country who sells weapons and training to other groups... ah, sure.
The fighter jets dug out of the sand in Iraq were what again? MIGs? I guess America makes MIGs as well. Right
I'm sure you'll find a way to say the U.S. created the IRA as well.
#114... give me a break. When is the last time Isreal blew up a car bomb in Palestine? Oh yeah, never. Rather, it's the Palestinians who are using terrorism tactics.
I'll tell you want #114. I'll make it real easy for you. Tell me the name of another super power who has a better track record than the U.S. in regards to foreign policy and helping create freedom around the world. Give me the name of a country that gives away more money, medicine, and food around the globe than the U.S. Tell me which country's education system educates more people worldwide?
Has the U.S. been perfect? Of course not. No country run by humans will be. But to make it out as though America is the current great evil of the world is sickening. I'm glad I wasn't "educated" where you were.
You're a dick. Go away. Since the Reagan years the US has done nothing but piss off the entire middle east.
To put some perspective on things, one of the principles the US was founded upon was
freedom of religion. Not all muslims are terrorists, just as not all blacks are lazy, or not all irish are drunks, or all poles are stupid, or all ___ are ___.
The general mark of an uneducated person is one who makes and follows such generalizations.
I'm sure this has been expressed adequately. But: Richard - you're a dick. Go away.
I know everyboy here wants world peace and love for mankind. Well, WAKEUP!!! It's not going to happen!
Most people in the middle east do not like America. They may like individuals that are from America, but the country itself is a target.
I have read several sites translated from arabic and english publications for an eastern audience. They do polls just like CNN and it shows most of them think we had it coming and Osama is a Hero!
It is few on both side who are enlightened and realize that we are all the same race. If you believe you are an American then you better stand up for yourself and to the bullies you may encounter. Freedom doesn't come free. Don't be a pussy or you deserve what you get.
PS I am not a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or etc.
I don't care what your race or religion is pal.
#104, You are with us or against us.... This is the drunk type that votes for Bush. Get some perspective before bullshitting.....
#114 You could mention that Israel has violated several UN resolutions (one of the arguments used against Iraq) and nobody does anything about it. US would veto any action in the security council. As for WMD, Israel has it also. Just another argument used against Iraq.
And you are absolutely right about US supporting groups outside US that turn into trouble later. This was done also a lot in Latin America during the 60/70s, when US supported/financed the right wing military ditactorships that executed people in the opposition. Just name the country: Chile, Panama, Argentina...... All of this is well documented and exposed after democracy was established.
#114: What in the world are you talking about? So Anand can't post his views on a personal topic. How does that make him biased in Processor and Motherboard reviews?
What are you talking about? Did you had a fight with your wife/girl friend?
Try to get your comments straight. Reread your comments and you will realize that they don't make any sense whatsoever.
OMG. #112. Please read some history. Get some education and then start talking. I am sure it was never intended to be the U.S v.s. Muslims. But that is exatcly what it has become.
As you said in your post "The world is in a war v.s. the terrorists. It's not the U.S. v.s. Muslims" Where do you think these terresoist come from? They are the creation or years of U.S foreign policy. Where do you think Saddam got his weapons? Where to do think the Talibans got their weapons and their training. Yes you can thank the almighty U.S. for all of this.
The U.S has a very indiffent attidude to the genocide being commited in Palestine by the Isrealis. Is that not terrorism? Why does the U.S. not choose to fight that? "Signal" you said "There are madmen out there who not only kill and repress their own people," well how is that diffent from what the Isrealis are doing to the Palestinians. Its murder all the same. Yet the U.S. chooses to do nothing. Open your eyes to what the hell is actually going on and educate yourself before forming a biased opinion.
Richard is another example of the ignorant rednecks that have plagued this beautiful country with their "tunnel vision" and can't stand to see anyone expressing anything that they don't agree with! BTW seems like Richard was the person who was drunk that night and made a hateful comment towards Anand. Im sure if you went through the same experience as Anand then you'd be in a cheerful mood. This is a forum to talk about anything and it's called freedom of expression, not a redneck forum so if you don't like it...LEAVE!
Oh look, another opportunity for people to bash America. Just what the internet needed.
Secondly, why seperate the deaths of 9/11 and those from the war on terror? They are one in the same. How about those killed in Oklahoma City? Or those in the Marine Barracks or on the USS Stark. How about the USS Cole? Or the deaths caused by the missile strikes in Iraq? The 3000 deaths of 9/11 were just more deaths in the same war, as are the 1000+ dead soldiers to date in Iraq as well as the countless innocent people of Iraq who have died. The terrorists have openly declared war against the "zionist states" and all the innocent deaths are on their hands.
The world is in a war v.s. the terrorists. It's not the U.S. v.s. Muslims. This should never be forgotten. 9/11 was a huge wake up call and it's about time we take the war as seriously as our enemies have.
Oh and to whomever claimed there are no WMD and therefore no connection between Saddam's regime and terrorism, you really need to put politics aside. There are madmen out there who not only kill and repress their own people, but also want to kill as many westerners (and especially Americans) as they can. Saddam was one of them and to say otherwise simply because you don't like the current American leader is lunacy.
As a new American, be sure to:
1: Invest in extra elastic waistbands for
your forthcoming girth expandsion
2. Remember that your new adopted country
was founded on genocide and slavery (largely
by the ex-con criminal fraternity of Britain)
and, just like abused children who grow up to
themselves be abusers, has a viscious, self-loathing that it projects onto the rest of the world.
#104 Rihard, that is perhaps the dummest thing I've ever heard. Why oh why can't people be any smarter than you are. Maybe then the world would really be at peace. Thinking you you Richard, a quite comes to mind, "best be thought a fool,
than to open one's mouth and let out all shadow of doubt".
Thanks for sharing your experience, Anand. Not only are you an American, but a hell of a good one I'd say, starting a great business from scratch and succeeding by helping others.
I guess the guy who accosted you thought his skin color was something special. I feel sorry for him.
If you read the reviews on this website you will see there is no political slant on a review of hardware / software. Heck, most of the reviews aren't even done by Anand. If you choose to read the guys personal blog where he talks about family life, his recent marriage, his degree he recently finished, etc... then you chose to do that. This blog has nothing to do with reviews on the website on hardware & software.
After reading your love it or leave it post above, maybe you should consider reading a blog or better yet, hardware / software review site run by Limbaugh, Coulter, or better David Duke!
I can see the reviews from that site now... Don't buy ATI, those pinko b*st*rds are too cowardly to support the US in invading Iraq. LOL...
Do you know what a blog is? Do you think the guys whole life only consists of hardware / software reviews? Heck, I am a consevative leaning person who recently left the Republican party because there are too many extreme views held by those at top (read Cheney, Wolfowitz, Bush, Libby, Ashcrosft)... not Powell. I am now an independent with conservative values :)
Everyone's judgement on anything is based on that persons bias or perceived reality. Being that this is only a computer hardware review website, why did Anand feel he had to write this article? To me it has lessened the quality or respect I had for this site because I now have a bias based what I interpreted from his blog. Why oh why can't people stay with what they are good at and not state their ideology or give opinions outside their box?
Richard, as someone who generally votes Republican, might I say that that's one of the dumbest rants I've ever seen. Are you friends with Ann Coulter or something?
First, how exactly does one's political leanings affect their judgment on reviewing COMPUTER HARDWARE?
Second, I don't see how you can say that just because a guy is hurt and upset because someone made an ignorant racist comment towards him that he's suddenly some far left idealogue? Give me a break.
#104 is the next drunk ignoramous.... or just a hardcore ditto head. Obviously, you have never felt discriminated againt. If a moron makes him feel unwelcome, even though Anand was born here... Anand should leave? What a moron.
Oh damn! Another website I used to like. I used to enjoy Firing Squad until an editor there shamelessly started to push his far left agenda. Don't make the same mistake. Anand, this country owes you nothing. If America makes you feel unwelcome, leave.
Now that I know your idealogy I can not take for granted the articles in here are 100 percent accurate anymore. Thanks a lot!
Please in the future don't let your bias or political position be known. I now feel you are arrogant and naive. Please don't further make me hate your website.
but don't be naive. I don't say this to be insulting or to belittle you. for someone who was born in this country you seem to know little about it. I also tend to agree with #31, although I know that the contry is not built by any one person, or in any given amount of time. excessive pride comes from ignorance, but at the same time you have to take with humilty that you add to 'building' and making this country by virtue of being an American.
Here is another website which makes it clear that the terrorists are not muslims in any way as they are definitely not acting upon the teaching of the Holy Koran and infact have distorted the meanings to serve their own sick agenda! http://www.voy.com/96956/
My first feeling is that the drunk that bothered you had no balls - he said his piece just to upset you, to ruin your day (or try to) and left. Once I got over his rudeness, I would have told him to go shove and how to do it. Psychic parasites. Sheesh.
A while after 9-11 happened, we had some idiot out here in Oregon (in Eugene south of me) that walked up to a Sikh lady in a turban with his hand shaped like a pistol and menacingly said "Bang your dead". He got arrested, tried to say it was a joke. I hope they threw him in the klink for awhile for intimidation. I know the police and the DA were taking it very seriously.
On the other hand.....
Understand that I have never read the Quran but what little I know about Islam it seems predisposed to marry church and state.
I am hungry - personally as a non-muslim American for a...a decision tree? a consensus? to emerge in the Islamic faith that proclaims and makes a statement, that... as a faith, it will not stand by and let the vehicle of the faith be hijacked by ... "nutbars". A statement that builds into the faith that it is/does or will flat out disown violence. That the end does not justify the means, regardless of sympathy the Palestinian question.
I will not be liked on either side for saying various things here but..I have read the history on it, and the way it was done, that land was stolen from the Palestinians. I don't know what the answer is but what's happening now is not working.
I believe if people have enough to eat, security, safety and a future, if they get educated they generally don't have a desire to become terrorists. Heck you have a decent job and a pretty signifigant other/family/friends ..who wants to hate anyone? You have your own life.
The crop for todays terrorists was sown a long time ago partly by no-questions asked American polices regarding the Saudi regime in exchange for oil. The disparity of riches and poverty there. This has been coming for 40 years. Sad but true. It's like my stepmother said one time: "People get funny, when it comes to money..". And I like money - dont get me wrong but...
Compassion and generosity have to come forward in this world or we will all disappear. The world has an incredible situation to defuse - I don't know if it can be done.
#14. I think it is extremeley ignorant on your part to think that almost all terrosits are Muslims.
Your views of the world seem to be based on the tunnel vision that the American media tries to project. If you would take the time to read a little more you would realize that there are several other terrorist/militant organizations around the world. Perhaps you have heard of the IRA in Ireland? Did you know that in any given year (except for 2001) the highest amount of people killed at the hands of militants are in Sri Lanka by the Tamil Tigers who happen to be Hindu.
There are black sheep in every community and it's about time that we stop basing our views on the fabricated reality presented by the media. It never hurts to read as much as we can and look for other news sources than what is being broadcast in America.
I just wanted to point out that there is far too much drunk bashing in this thread. Just as there are many types of people in the world, there are many types of drunk.
I am one of the happy kind. The one you encountered was one of the sad, bitter, jerk kind.
So, everybody stop bashing drunks and start bashing jerks.
Just as the USA is not a monolithic race of people, neither is our ability to express fear, concern and yes hatered of those you intend to do us harm. Many, as seen in the previous comments however, help to balance the scale of ignorance and enlighteded thought. But it will never eliminate ignorance.
Sorry to hear about your experience. You are lucky things didn't turn out for the worse. I'm Japanese-American, i have been putting up with this type of non-sense my whole life, as you will (do) too. Its amazing how people feel the need to voice their opinion (or their fist) for no reason... I can't pump a full tank of gas w/o someone yelling a racial slur.
I just wanted to let you know that the complaint you just made is extremely common and happens all of the time in the United States, at least from what people tell me. It's honsetly disgusting.
It's a strange co-incidence that the other night, I met a guy from New York City who complained about similar issues. It was his first time in Toronto, Canada and he couldn't stop going on about how much he loved it here. He said that Toronto is basically a "Mini New York", citing a similar urban culture, but that we have "somehow found a way to co-exist". I've lost count of the number of tourists which have shared similar sentiments with me.
The type of racial tension that you describe is extremely rare here. I just wanted to let you know that there indeed *are* places where people from all over the world can co-exist peacefully. I myself grew up in the most multicultural community on earth, located in the northeast end of Toronto. Within walking distance of my house, there was a Hindu temple, a Muslim mosque, and a handful of Christian churches. In 20 years of living there, I never witnessed a single racial incident, and none of those churches were ever defaced or vandalized.
The bottom line: Move to Toronto, people like you enrich our lives and our collective culture.
I don't understand how a human can be stupid as an american?
All your high-life standarts require blood of "others". You have large-houses, expensive cars, hive-perf. comps, degenerated religions and brains full of hamburger spoils.
First of all; the reason of attacking in Iraq and Afghanistan by Usa wasn't 9/11 story. "Others" in Iraq live 9/11 everyday. Because Us citizens must have cheap petrol -even cheaper blood.
If you believe the 9/11 story, then how can u tell Vietnaem, Cuba, first Iraq war etc..?
You escaped from Vietnaem because of China, and also escaped from Cuba bec. of U.S.S.R. But Iraq seems they haven't got a strong country on b-ground.
Usa is a dummy in crash-tests using by Israel and i have to say this time test will be end with a tragedy.
It's certain that America is going to attack Iran in near future and also to Syrian.
Arabians and Persians will loose this war, because Usa has great weapons, but American soldiers won't understand the meaning of war until they face with Turks.
We are not the others, time will show...
Hi Anand,'
I'm sorry for your experience. I know it bothers you, on the other hand that's an eye opener - it is good sometimes to have a wake-up call.
Don't make from the exception the general rule.
I have also an event that pissed me a lot last year. I work for an american company (top 5), you cannot tell where I came from just looking at me, I have B1/B2 Visa valid for 10 years to enter US and last time I went through US Customs (after 9/11), I was threated like garbage by the immigration officer. I was almost turned back, without reason, without provocation, no explanation. My sin was to have a passport from a country he didn't like....Brazil - that by the way, is peaceful, hosts no terrorism and had nothing to do with 9/11.
I could avoid this using my other passport, european, from a country that belongs to the "friends" list, but I stand for where I come from.
And for the americans that vote, please do the world a favor and just cast Bush out. That's the worst guy, ever.
#31 Vancello: Let's not even get into the whole grammar issue. First of all, we are not discussing grammar here and secondly, you don't have to be grammatically correct in order to express your opinions. Who cares if someone didn't put a common or if the sentence is a run-on; as long as the sentence makes sense and the idea gets through, everything is good.
BTW, you are not gramatically correct. "Your's is" does not make sense in any way so it is better to proof read your thread 100 times before you click the post button. I think you showed your ignorance by posting that message. If you don't have something to add to the conversation, it is better to stay out of it rather than making a fool out of yourself by posting a completely irrelevant comment.
Don't even think about attacking me with my post because I know that mine is not perfect either.
All this over the comments that one person made. Every country has their assholes and I seriously doubt that he was the first one you have encountered and wont be the last. Americans hate other Americans just as much as some hate Muslims. Its all part of the melting pot and humanity.
I am in the military and can honestly say that I hold no hatred towards anyone's culture or people. I'm sorry that someone would say such a thing to yourself Anand. It's people such as yourself that are a valuble part of the community. Best advice I can give is let this man's words roll off you as water to a ducks feather's.
it´s quite simple: You cannot expect that all people are as intelligent as in this forum. There´s no difference between europe and usa if racism comes into play.
I´m european, if it matters
Im an iranian and i have been a fan of your site for a long time.
First congratulations on your wedding and i wish you love , happiness and health .I think your people should realize that the way a country acts is based on the governments not ordinary people . And most of us in iran arent against anyone and we are completley against any kind or terrorism. And what we see in iran or anywhere else isnt a sample of a complete islamic country not even near it . Here seems the word "ISLAM" has turned into a power source in hands of my Gov. and a Target to blame for many problems in your country`s Gov. .
We all are humans and should like each other for as much as love we have in our hearts .
#31 Your's is, in my opinion, the most completely accurate assesment of this thread. One has only to observe the unbelievably bad grammar used in most of these postings to validate a well deserved suspicion of the intelligence behind them. Peace Annand!
I totally agree with post #70. I live in Bush Land and let me tell you, I Fourth generation Chinese-American are still considered foriegners. After work, most have to find other Asian friends to hang out because their caucasien counterparts are doing "American stuff". Sure they may offer to join them, but do you feel comfortable enough to "be yourself." I'm classified as an Asian, but it all a facade, beciuse in the end there is just ME. Hang tight, because there's always CANADA, the other 1st world country REALLY run by immigrants.
-You don't have to shout your condolences from the mountain top to be sympathetic.
-You don't have to put an American flag you your Ford truck to be patriotic.
-You don't have to want to live in this country to be a decent person.
-You don't have to be apathetic towards the tens of thousands of innocents who died in the war on terror to be sorry for the thousands (and their families) who died on 911.
-Even white Christians are heretics to someone.
-You can be white and USA-born and believe these things without shame. I know I do.
There's a lot of $#$% flying around. It's all misunderstandings that stems from the assumption that one knows exactly what the other person is talking about, even though one doesn't have a clue. Please...
Anand,
I completely know where you're coming from. I was born in Afghanistan, but I was raised in the United States. This is the only home I know. After 9/11, I joined the Navy to become a SEAL (something to do with revenge as you mentioned.) To this day I still get "looks" probably similar to what you got. Practically everytime I have to fly anywhere, I get a lot of grief from airport security. Keep your chin up my friend, you're not the only one...
Bodily identification by any name whether it be national or religious is the real ignorance. As long as we base our identity entirely on our physical forms, this kind of prejudice is unavoidable. Consciousness is the common denominator of all life, which should be properly respected, as we would expect others of ourselves. If we could only learn that our real identity is beyond the temporary identities we take up for 100 years or so. That consciousness, the symptom of the soul is the common denomonator. How trivial are our likes and dislikes, ups and downs, bruised or boosted egos, of a tiny speck in the midst of a billion years. Whether we die now or in 40 years, in the end it's all pretty inconsequential, and ultimately inevitable.
hey, anand. i'm deeply angered and saddened by what happened to you. my friend's sister was assaulted the day after 911 because she is lebanese, so i definitely am no stranger to this kind of thing
but as much as i hate to diminish what heppened to you, many people have and continue to endure similar things. african americans (especially males) such as myself constantly endure prejudice-enduced slights every day. women sometimes clutch their purses when i walk by, i occasionally get the "you're a shoplifter" look whenever i walk into a store, and this all goes on in a pretty liberal and prominent academic community. sadly, it's the kind of thing that is associated with being in a minority group. baptism by fire, as it were.
i am about as much of a "wasp" looking person as you can get. blond hair, blue eyes, german/swiss ethnicity 6'2" etc. i only mention this because that guy that came up to you may not have been drunk because i hae found that many people (because of the way i look) have revealed their prejudice to me in confidence because they just assume that i hold the same beliefs as they do! how stupid of them!
they don't know that i marched with martin luther king in the sixties, that my dearest friends are indian, african american, jewish, philipino, vietnamese and yes, iranian! this is not an attempt to tell you what a wonderful, unprejudiced, enlightened person i am or to use the "some of my best friends are..." line to appear superior. but really anand, if you asked me what my experience was with iranian "americans" you might be surprised. i only worked with "them" ten years, was invited to many a good home as well as many a huge wedding (great food! btw) met with perhaps over 250 on a close personal basis and when i asked many of them what they really thought of americans they would tell me that "our (american)lives were about of as much value to them as that of a chickens". killing us was easy for them. we weren't human! so, do i base my opinion of all iranians on perhaps the 80 ignorant, brainwashed iranians i spoke with out of how many millions of iranians that i didn't meet? not likely, because i know better and so do you. the wise iranians i have met (the other 170) hate the ignorance of their fellow country men more than i do and imo, they have good reason.
there are more ignorant people than not in this world and it takes a leap of faith to trust in the decent side of humans, with most evidence pointing to the contrary. you know all the examples i could list, sudan, middle east, united states, russia, etc. etc. it's seems endless really. it's a choice we make brother, and far from the most expedient one. take care.
I understand your pain, but having come from a truly multi-racial and multi-cultural society, I'm from Singapore btw, I can say that the guy was way out of line so don't be bothered by him.
Sure you two probably don't look the same but haven't he learnt from WWII that being a white supremacist doesn't pay. Anyway I don't think there is no country in the world now that can claim to be truly single racial what with the massive push for globalisation.
Maybe some Americans just need to have more tolerance and education so that they don't jump to conclusions. Over in my country we are thought at grade school level of all the other races and their cultures so that with knowledge come a greater understanding and greater tolerances. Anyone who has been to Singapore will know the mish mash of races that constitute the population.
Welcome to the club Anand. I'm suprised it took you this long to feel this way about America. Being an ABC I know that no matter how much money I make or how well I speak English or how well I dress or how well educated I am, I will never be considered an "American." The moment WW3 breaks out between US and China I already know what to expect from some of my fellow Americans. Does it bother me? Not really, it's just human nature like another poster said. The same happens to the foreigners over in China or any other country.
If you truly feel like this country is your home, then it will always be hard when you come across folks like that (again, I'm suprised that you haven't already encountered this before). To me, it's just easier to accept the fact that this isn't my home, just a place to work and make some money. You can never change people's opinions, just ask the average black man in America. All you can change is yourself and your perspective on things.
Well congrats on the wedding man. Wishing you the best!
I feel for you Anand,but I think it's a bit of a waste of time getting caught up over something stupid a drunken moron said. Seriously, you just got married! Go make love to your wife or something :P
Wishing you the best of luck in the future and much love!
I believe that the root of the problem in the western or middle-east societies is one very common to both - lack of proper education.
When all people will get a proper education (never say never :) then all these problems will be solved.
The value of a man lies beyond its skin color or religious affiliation, that's a lesson most of us still have to learn - not in school, not in university but at home. That's where it all starts.
Yes, Anand did the right thing but let it be known to all of you that even in an academic environment where I live these days, more than once I did hear people reffering to the "f#$%in' whites".
While it is no surprise that it goes both ways one can only assume that such attitudes are not always related to how much education a person gets while in school/university.
So if you're waiting for the schools or someone else to make you or your kids better people, than all I can say is good night.
Scapegoatism. It's human nature not to accept the fact that maybe, just maybe it's not a certain whole group of people at fault for everything wrong in the world. People blame Muslims, Jews, Christians, blacks... the list goes on... for anything and everything. It could never be even a small part my problem, it's a vast conspiracy to overthrow the world. Take responsibility, take action to make things better instead of stirring up hate by blaming other people.
#61 You don't really get my point and thus your conclusion makes me laugh. Everyone starts talking about how ignorant this guy was...none of you even know the first thing about him. To sit and judge someone while dictating moral policy to others...must be nice.
Sorry about that MORON. You get guys that are just THAT STUPID in the world. You have the really great people and ignorant people like that. Just how it works and I don't think we'll ever change but we can try. But we'll always have the very small minority like that.
Congrats, Anand, and don't let the morons get you down. As far as the 3 "western" majors go, you are SO right! Having studied all 3, they are so much more similar than people realize. Come on, put David Duke (KKK) and Osama next to each other and they both will say they are very religious people who believe very firmly that they are doing right and the will of their "God".
What's my bias? I personally think all of you have it wrong, I'm a druid! ;-)
"Can't we all just get along?"
Rodney King
You know what they say.... out of the mouths of babes and morons...
Congrats again, Anand, and hold your head high. Regardless of race, creed, or faith, good people are.
I am sorry you had to go through this. I am an American of European decent and I am a convert to Islam (since 1999). After September 11th my wife (Malaysian and wears the hijab, head covering) was given dirty looks and had some rund comments tossed her way.
We recently moved to Florida and she decided to take off her hijab for the first time for her own protection... there are a lot of ignorant people in the South (NOT all of them, but many racist or just ignorant people).
It is sad to see that at present time it is politically incorrect to make fun of blacks, hispanics, asians, etc... The Muslims (in general) and Arabs (in particular) are the last bastion of an "acceptable" group to discriminate against.
Don't forget what happened and never let it cloud your judgements on people just by their appearance!
#51: To actually be a muslim state, it must be a theocracy where the priests are the entities actually making decisions on law, etc. That happens in Iran, but not in Saudi Arabia. In Iran, the high priests have ultimate veto power over law. It also happened in Taliban Afghanistan I believe, but not anymore (unless the Taliban come back, which they might if we do not put focus back on them.)
#37: "Believing that your friends are your friends, that they are on your side, and would really put themselves out there for you (a person of another ethnicity) is the very definition of naivety." If you've had problems with your friends of other races not sticking up for you, it is a function of their character not their race. My friends of other races have been there for me in my most vulnerable of times, as I have been for them. I feel sorry that the negligence of your once-friends imparted you with such a jaded view on the nature of friendship.
Anand: I regret so much what you went through, and empathize very much with the feeling. As a 1/2 black 21 year old man in this country, I was recently racially profiled by the police for the first time in my life. I took it lightly then, but now feel anxiety when I see a police car instead of the safety I once did. You're right...it just takes a chip out of your confidence in belonging, and makes it easy to think that your many inclusive friends in this country are the exception, not the rule. Its easy to think, but try not to. I too am trying.
Anand, sorry to hear abt your encounter. I am an Indian and have lived in the US for 25+ years. I consider the US to be my home (I'm also a U.S. Citizen). I faced a lot of what you went through after Sept 11 and some of it in Silicon Valley where many were bitter that their jobs had gone to India (My job also went to India). SV is the coolest place to live and work and the people there are generally the most decent folks. However the 9/11 tragedy and subsequent job losses brought out the worst in some people. Over time I came to realize that the problem lies not in me, but with the small minority of ignoramuses. Steer clear of these fools, but live your live proudly as a US citizen (better yet, as a GLOBAL citizen). Peace to all of us.
My friends and I try very hard to judge people by their works and not by the color of their skin or the clothing they wear.
I have followed your works on the internet for a very long time. You have done good works and have enlighted our lives. In other words, you have done good works!
I know of no one that thinks anything but good of you. Thank you for enriching our lives.
See, the American melting pot works for the benefit of all people!
dear anand
i am really sorry for what happened to yo. but i also think that vinnie's company after the marriage support from anandtechies and love from everyone who cares can wipe that memory. yes tolerance is very necessary. without tolerance we will all be back to dark ages. and with all due respect to USA , US politicians have time and again commited acts like the new imperialists which have not endeared them to most countries especially middle east and third world countries. in my view every person should be forced to spend at least 2 years traveeling extensively , mingling with other cultures and religions so that he becomes more tolerant.(sounds a bit far fetched rite but it can be a way) i agree to the point anand raised that essentialy we are not very different but it is the differences which are highlighted by some for their vested interests. i am an indian andi can vouch for the same having traveled through almost entire india that inspite of differences in apperance, language and some customs all indians are essentialy same and i think that is true of the world too. lets not blame muslims , christians, jews , whites , blacks anybody. lets just listen to each other , understand and live in harmony working for progress of mankind
I almost didn't comment, because I saw so many other people have commented, and I figure they all must be positive. I also figure that some will have said things better than I can say them.
But I realize that that thinking is wrong, it is very similar to the school of thought, that goes with "why should I vote, one vote won't matter".
So in breaking free of that, I believe you hit the nail on the head to some degree, it is part ignorance.
Though there are a just as many factors of why people dislike others not like them, as there are different cultures in the world.
I personally do not look favorable upon any religious zealots, nor do I look favorably upon many cultures, even my own. I tend to take a rather critical view of almost everything.
But in dealing with individual people, I make every effort possible to disregard stereotypes, and racial profileing, my views on societies and religions, and see the person.
Try to do the same. And take heart. Being American is just citizenship, its Patriotism, and not by just showing pride for ones country, but by doing all those things you listed. Being kind, and fair, and donating, though not a necessity, for not all of us can, is also a very true mark.
Drunk Guy - "Dude, seriously, I have a friend named Osama who has a brother that looks kind of like you. My bad. Why are you all tense? Did you just get married or something?"
(hopefully that comes out funny and not offensive)
"[...] I think you'll find that out of the 6 billion people on this planet, we're all more alike than it sometimes seems. It's just always easier to point out the few differences than it is to accept the many similarities."
I believe that this statement, combined with the extreme measures that the majority sometimes resorts to in order to "get their way" sums up 99.9+% of the social problems and tragedies that the world faces today.
Anand, I think you are wrong on the Islamic State thing. Afghanisthan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc. are self-declared Islamic states.For example, Pakistan calls itself "Islamic Republic of Pakistan". And there are many more...
Some of what I was talking about in my post is sadly even evident here. I'm going to respond to a few of the claims here not out of a desire to attack the posters but out of a desire to help educate as I have a bit of experience and knowledge in this area (not only because of my heritage but I've also studied middle eastern history).
1) Islamic countries aren't "against" the Westerners. For starters, there's only one true Islamic state (Iran), the rest of the countries are hardly Islamic. Saying so would be like calling the U.S. a Christian country. The majority of the people in the country may be Muslim, but there's a huge difference between that and being an Islamic state. Last I recalled, sex before marriage was something that was frowned upon in many other religions, not just Islam. And there are many Muslim girls that wear miniskirts but most of them are over here, the culture over there has yet to accept that but I have no doubts that the fashion trends we see here will eventually migrate over there (whether that's a good thing or not).
2) The word Jihad has multiple meanings - and not a single one of them means "holy war." The actions of Al Qaeda have since given the word a very bad rap. There are three types of "jihad" in Islam: jihad of the heart, jihad of the mouth and jihad of the sword, I've listed them in their order of importance (as far as the religion is concerned). Jihad of the heart is basically a self-reflection, where you are supposed to reflect on yourself and try to make yourself a better person in the eyes of God (I believe a similar thing is encouraged in many other faiths). Once that is complete then jihad of the mouth is to spread the word of God and the teachings of the Qua-ran (once again, I believe this is similar to church-goers spreading the teachings of Christ). The final type of jihad is jihad of the sword (loosely translated) where it is a muslim's duty to defend the religion. Jihad of the sword is something that is rarely meant by muslims when they say jihad but it is what Osama Bin Laden and his followers are talking about when they use the word jihad. I'm not sure if there are any equivalents in other religions but I do believe most religions do call for their followers to uphold and defend the religion; how some followers may interpret that will vary obviously.
3) Most countries in the middle east aren't "against" the western countries, however they are very untrusting of the countries. The reason behind this really dates back to WWI and the Ottoman empire. The current map of the middle east was basically decided upon by Europe at the end of WWI. Unfortunately when drawing up the borders in the middle east, the prevailing countries in Europe didn't pay much attention to the cultural and ethnic boundaries in the middle east, instead they grouped people together in order to serve their interests. For example, Iraq was purposefully formed by putting regions of people together that definitely didn't get along and placing a leader in power who wasn't what the people wanted at all, but he was who the Europeans wanted. Imagine what our country would be like if someone combined Canada, Mexico, Cuba and the U.S. together and then appointed a President who none of us elected, agreed with or plain desired. The lack of trust came from a lot of shady deals the Europeans made with the middle easterners, and at this point in history the majority of the middle eastern countries actually *wanted* the United States to step in and take control of their countries. If they had to be occupied by someone, they would have liked to have been the U.S. Winston Churchill's 14 points made a huge impact on the middle east; I won't go into a more detailed description here but needless to say the problems in the middle east aren't all because of religious fanatics (some most definitely are).
4) As far as my mom (being a Muslim) marrying someone who isn't a Muslim, remember that not everyone who adheres to a religion follows every aspect of it (this applies to all religions). But to be honest, I'm not actually sure if the Qua-ran actually states anything about this.
5) I'm not here to critique religions, but I think you'll find that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are much more similar than some of you may think. Don't base your knowledge of any one of those religions on hearsay, take a class or study them impartially and I think you'll find that out of the 6 billion people on this planet, we're all more alike than it sometimes seems. It's just always easier to point out the few differences than it is to accept the many similarities.
6) As far as Muslims condemning terrorism, if you ask most people (regardless of religion) they will condemn the acts of 9/11. I have not met a single person who hasn't. That being said, don't take the actions of a government to reflect the ideals of a people. Just because a government doesn't denounce something right away doesn't mean that the people support it. I know our government does a lot of things that I don't agree with. I think this ends up being one of the biggest causes of problems in inter-cultural relations. The U.S. gave Saddam weapons to fight the Iranians with in the Iran-Iraq war, we supplied weapons to Al Qaeda as well, does that mean that Americans supported Saddam or Bin Laden? No. Don't judge the people by the actions of their government, I know there are a lot of Americans that didn't want to go into Iraq and definitely don't want to be there now - is it fair to judge all Americans by the actions of this government?
Remember that have been many times where the same sort of fear and hatred was prevalent towards another group of people; let's not let history repeat itself - not over something as tragic as 9/11. We need to learn from this, not respond with hatred - especially if you don't truly understand that which you hate. As I said before, there are 6 billion people on this planet and trust me, the 280 million that are in this country are not much different from the rest of the world. After all, it is the rest of the world that made up the people in this country - how could we possibly be all that different?
My goodness, look at all these replies, all the sore feelings and hate. Kind of makes me ill.
I thought that clicking on the comments would be a feel-good show of solidarity for Anand, but it looks like it's the end of illusion, the gloves are off, Realpolitik on Anandtech.
GaTech guy was correct. It's a human problem, old as the wind, unsolvable as economic inequality. Anand, my friend, are blessed/cursed with a powerful intellect. You can take a comment made with a half second of effort and go on a tangent of all your insecurities about being an American. There is no need.
In your heart, you know the contribution you have made. Wisdom and time will show that is all the acknowledgement you need. Go forth with a righteous heart, and let your mind be at peace.
It is good to hear that your honeymoon has (largely) been blissful, it should be!
I am sorry that the incident with the drunk happened to the two of you during your honeymoon, or at all for that matter. Why the ignorant few are so vocal I really do not know, but this seems to be an immutable law of society that crosses all "boundries" such as race, religion, etc.
Unfortunately, it is what it is, and it is a part of the world that we live in and not likely to change. That being said, I suppose that the only thing to remember is that it is not really worth worrying over as this individuals words, while disheartening, are still only words and only have the power to hurt you if you let them. Hopefully sharing this incident with the fans of this site (obviously there are quite a few, which should be encouraging to you) has been theraputic for you, and any other "silent sufferers" who may have had similar incidents.
Take care of yourself and enjoy this time as you make the transition to become a married couple. I have to give you some fair warning, just because you are legally married doesn't mean you are "husband and wife" in the truely internal sense, I feel that it takes time and working through the problems that come about for that to happen. After all, since when has signing a paper made all of life's problems solve themselves? But it is definately worth the struggle, and it sounds as if you are already quite a ways down that path.
Shock, dismay? Reality is, there are racists amongst all races. You will no doubt incounter this many times more. It has nothing to do with you being an "American." Would it be any lesser for a person who was not an American, or paid taxes, or contributed to this and that to have been verbally berated by a drunk?
Live your life, don't let others play you like a puppet and your emotions.
Fact is, there will always be people like this.
Can you or I change them? Now, we would all be living in a dream world if you thought we could.
Pakistan the root of the problem for Muslims? More like its a front line state against terrorism and we here have to put up with a lot of shit from Al Qaida.
The Afghan war would have been impossible without Pakistan's support, as well as catching any of the terrorists that Pakistan is hunting down and handing over to the US.
Dont blame your most "effective" ally in the war on terrorism before you know the facts...
hey anand, idiots will always be idiots
if you really wanna feel foreign in america, go to the ghetto by UIC (by your chicago branch), I go there all the time... it REALLY makes you feel foreign, with the hatred, the speaking of a foreign language, all the cultural differences, and so forth
america has it's sub-cultures and you don't belong to the drunken-idiot sub-culture... it's not a big loss (or the white trash sub-culture, racist southerner sub-culture, etc)
#40... the irish potato famine was mid 1800s, not early 1600s, 400 years ago would mean your ancestors founded virginia or were here before then
anyway, we're all missing the point, anand should be busy benchmarking his wife and putting up pics for us
how's her floating point performance? how much faster than stock speed can she run stablely with air cooling? water-cooling? how would you rate her case? does she have any fancy case mods?
Am I the only one that thinks #31 is a little jealous? Got country envy pal?
Can only be President if you were born here?
Well, I guess I will just have to be happy Schwarzenegger is govenor. After all it would probably scare the sh!t out of the rest of the planet. Bad enough we have a Texas cowboy for president. Imagine what North Korea or Iran would think if we had the Terminator!!!
Okay how about Anand Lal Shimpi for President?
2016 election of course. Here in America we still got that age discrimination thing going. Sorry Anand, you got to be at least 35 before you can run.
I guess you must be one of those rabid Hollywood Democrats. Oops, looks like we don't have enough real dirt so we must make some up!
Jesus, try saying something intelligent like you don't like this policy or that policy. You're almost as simple minded as that drunk guy.
There are several other things I would like to make clear before people start bashing on Republicans and equating them with racist.
(I hope Anand is a republican or at least more insightful than you.)
1) Bush isn't ignorant or stupid. (You try talking in front of millions of people and see how easy it is, although I wish he was a little better at it.)
2) Life sucks when you don't have money. Vote republican if you want to keep it in the bank.
3) If you are dirt poor you're more likely to commit crimes. How many people think there would be problems in the middle east if the standard of living was better? (if your economy sucks... blame your leaders, not ours!)
4) Everybody forgets that white, middle class, males have to put up with sh!t talk from other ethnic groups all the time because it is assumed it is okay to insult people "perceived" as being in a more advantageous position. Prejudice is everywhere!
To Anand: I am greatful you chose to utilize your first amendment rights and that you are a fellow citizen of the Republic. Please remember we both live in the best country on Earth. But, it is only through vigilence that we maintain our freedoms.
I hope that my remarks don't sound corny but I want you to realize that all of us experience prejudice at one time or another. But, unlike other countries in the world, Americans made it part of our culture to reject this evil and count all men as equal. There are always ones wanting to take this away from us. Some living in our own country that blow up buildings like McVeigh, others drunk in a bar.
So, it is our duty as Americans to stand up to these men. Be brave. You do not fight alone.
Unforunately about 25% of Americans ARE like the guy you encountered. They are called "Republicans". And there is a way to make them go away, vote democrat.
I think that you are old enough, not to need a lecture. I'm 22 years old and I have a slightly darker complexion. Now my origins have been mixed with caucasian, scotch irish, black, and cherokee indian (Tiger Woods clone). Now, my economic upbringings have been around upper-middle class whites. With two parents holding masters degrees in mathematics and psychology, this has put, quite an awkward mix into how I see myself. While I see myself as a direct combination of these mixtures, I think classification sometimes puts a negative spin on those people who, well, like to classify.
The only constant that I've seen in people is that there are those who really seem interested in the human condition, and those who lack the intellectual capacity. My interest include computer programming and music. I've held these same two interest, since for the most part, they were instilled into me in Elementary school, through my high school years, until the time until today.
My familys history dates back 400 years on American soil when the Irish came over due to the potato famine. In High School, I had the choice of standing up or sitting down while saying the pledge of allegiance every morning. I chose to stand. Repeating this pledge everyday reminded me of my allegiance to this country.
Its these simple facts of every day life that people casually neglect that evolve to the gradual erosion and corruption of American society. I definately do not have all of the answers, but there is one thing that also seems to remain a constant, we grow stronger as we go along.
hey anand (first blog post!)
Glad to see your back! Ive missed you! I am really looking forward to that Mac article you promised... As for what happened, That really sucks. The person whom i consider my best friend is Indian (im white) and I just dont see what the issue is. It must be maturity and being able to accept the fact that in America, We are all different. I still love ya, even though i dont know anything about you (othere than that AT rock!). Theres just too much racisim... But enough of that! Congrats on the union and keep keep those articles coming! (now that you have less time, you will soon become the Yoda of delegation!:D)
I do believe some Americans are rascist but not all of them are. Don't worry about that jack*** that called you a terrorist. You are an American citizen. You did a lot of good things to help America. That damn lower than a civillian person you met will probably not be respected in this country. Anand, you have my respect.
Everyone is different, this is true…but it is the individual’s choice to accept others or not. If everyone was black, people would still pick on other people for some reason whether it be those with big noses or huge feet. Please tell me why it is that people from different ethnic backgrounds seem to (for the most part) live together in a “China town” or “little Italy”? Why is there a “white” part of town and a “black” part of town?
There are lots of people that are quite capable to think for themselves and do not need people such as you to dictate moral policy to them because it is popular opinion like rap music. Is it the right or wrong thing to do? Well that depends on who you ask, where they are from, etc.
It is not that they hate those people, they just don’t really want to have to be nice because society say’s so. If you think that so called “racism” is dying and will be gone soon; you are sadly mistaken. Call it what you want, tell me how stupid I am, blah blah blah. You will then be caught up in something that makes no difference to me and is a waste of time. Who the @#$% are any of you to judge, after saying that being prejudiced is wrong? Where the hell do you guy’s get off setting peoples moral compass for them? Believing that your friends are your friends, that they are on your side, and would really put themselves out there for you (a person of another ethnicity) is the very definition of naivety. What people say, and what they think, are two completely different things.
I'm an adult white male who resides in NY.
I work about 30 miles from where the towers fell. I left work early that day not knowing what to expect after hearing the Pentagon was also hit. On the way home I stopped at a gas station to fill my tank (just in case I couldn't get any gas later on). The attendant had a full beard and a turban. He looked really scared. After paying him I wished him good luck. He thanked me and shook my hand.
I was concerned for this poor guy. I hope he wasn't hurt by any of the crazy's on the way home that horrible day.
I'll never forget the scared look on his face.
Guys like that drunk you ran into are products of their enviroment as much as anything else. I have always taught my children to treat others the way they treat you and also to treat others the way you want to be treated. It's probably a waste of time to try to change someone like that drunk. What we have to do is educate our children as to the wrongs of racism in any form and hope it sticks. If we ALL teach our children this, hopefully, eventually we can change most or maybe all of human society to accept one another. It's not going to happen in our life times but we have to start with our kids or it will never change. So all of you parents & future parents remember this when some of you are tempted to say something nasty about someones heritage or lifestyle or anything else that makes them different from you in front of your kids. It has to start with us if there is any hope for a change.
Sorry to hear about your incident. I would be mad and resentful. Let me relay my story. My first girlfriend was Japanese/Hawaiian. (Me? atypical blonde, blue eyed American.) At a party, some idiot says to me (not knowing my girlfriend) -- "All Spics and Japs should go home!!" (spics/hispanic, Japs/Japanese person) I was 16 and devestated.
While I can't image your feelings, I do know that I was utterly offended, outraged, angry. However for you, as others have pointed out, this guy was a drunk idiot who does not represent America. Sounds like a redneck.
You are welcome here, your home is here, don't forget that. Oh yes, you were born here :)
Thanks
(I agree with your point on "education..." it's needed everywhere.)
The breadth of ignorance is indeed disheartening. In my opinion, this issue has three states: intolerance, tolerance and acceptance. Prior to 9/11, I think many optimists would have painted the United States as a land of acceptance where people of different religions, races and beliefs would accept their differences insofar as they did not interfere with the common good. In fact, the rhetoric of such optimists would probably have spoken about how the United States was strong because of its diversity. I think it would be safe to say that the U.S. is not a land of acceptance now (I don't think there are any places in this world where there is true acceptance). However, the United States is a land of tolerance. With few exceptions will you ever find yourself in harms way in America because of your religion, race or beliefs. You may be heckled; you may be mocked; you might be passed over for a job; you might be made to feel like an outcast. But people will by and large tolerate your existence, even in their own backyard.
As terrible as this sounds, look at it in a positive light. A tolerant society learns to live together, and living together usually brings about true acceptance. It is important to remain ever vigilant that the situation does not worsen. This is why I think it's great that you've written here about your feelings. It's all too easy for people to dismiss the negative racial profiling that's going on today when they look at it from an abstract, impersonal view. To see somebody who has not only lived, but thrived on the American dream; somebody that many of us readers have literally seen grow up on this web site and know to be a good person, be the victim of such naivete is upsetting.
The first step toward reconciling a problem is admitting one exists in the first place. I'm not American and don't live in the U.S.. But from my perspective, I think as more of the haze from 9/11 clears, Americans are beginning to deal with some of their few unfortunate and misguided collective responses to the attack. I am certain that the increase in explicit racism post 9/11 will be seen for what it is: an ignorant, short-term knee-jerk reaction unbecoming of the foundations on which America was founded. Of this I have no doubt. It's probably not much comfort to you, but if you're worried of the situation worsening, I am of the opinion that it has already bottomed out and will only improve. Let's hope I'm right!
I think you were talking to me as I posted those threads. My mom works with quite a few Muslims and when 9/11 happened, they actually had the guts to say that "we are glad this happened to US because they think they are better than others."
I don't know about you but I would be pretty mad at such a comment especially when everyone is crying and these people could care less.
I am not a Native American. I am Indian and I am a sikh so it's not like I am biased on certain aspects of the country, BUT I do know that when something happens to a country you are living in (9/11 attacks), the least you can do is join hands with others and support each other regardless their race, color or whatever. Making crude comments like the one I posted above is irrational.
Let's take your comments one-by-one:
1. I could care less if I get the chance to vote or if I want to run for presidency. There are certain things that I don't care about and I know I will never get involved with (namely politics). When I said you get all rights, I meant the "regular" rights so to speak. I am not talking about special privleges that citizens get.
2. I never said you have to be proud to be true American. Like I said, I am an Indian and even if I don't currently live in India I am still proud of my native country. However, that doesn't mean that I should be ignorant of the country I am currently living in. You can make ignorant comments.
3. What do you mean "how can you be proud of a country that you just moved inn?" This is very possible. I am proud that I am a sikh American and I am sure Anand is proud of US or almost every immigrant. Please try to be clear next time.
Anand it is very unfortunate that this happened to you. I have a friend who was born and India and he was indirectly harassed after 9/11 (even though for starters India != Afghanistan and they hate each other politically speaking.)
Racism isnt something that only you have to put up with though it is everywhere. I am white and I have experienced it as well. I went to a school that was about 40% african american and I have been called names etc and it made me feel unpleasant. I also went to a school in an area that was 90% african american and that was much worse.
I can understand where you are coming from and I believe you are handling it very well because for the most part you are surrounded by people (likely higher than 90% of the population around you) who have a different skin color and therefor may consider themselves the norm and you different.
The question is what can we do about this and unfortunately while there has been some [emphasis]slow[/e] but steady progress in terms of eliminating racism against african americans... I am not sure this can be said about racism against people of other origins.
Yuck, it's scary to see that even people posting here can be as ignorant as anyone.
#7:
You don't gain all rights the natives have, just by setting foot in the US. Far from it. Just to pick an example, you have to be born there to become president. ;)
And honestly, it sickens me when people, on this thread or elsewhere, feels that you have to be "proud" of America to be a true american. How can you be "proud" of a country you just happened to be born in? Or one you decided to move to? Did *you* make the country what it is today? Or should you just consider yourself lucky to live there?
That's one of the reasons Americans are seen as arrogant by the rest of the world. The way a lot of americans assume they're better than everyone else. Not because of what they themselves have achieved, but because of where they were born, or where they currently live.
#17:
Saying that muslims are a problem because they "can't handle" western culture is a bit of a double-edged sword. That statement could just as well apply to you. You obviously can't handle muslim cultures either.
About Hameed's original comment, I read it like he's glad that this happened to Anand, not that he's glad 9/11 happened.
Whatever he meant, he's still got a very good point. 3000 innocents died on 9/11, but lets not forget about the 13000 civilians killed in Iraq, in a so-called "war on terrorism". That's just as tragic. Their lives are just as important as american ones.
#24: That isn't specific for islam. Dedicated christians won't marry people of other religions either. On the other hand, more relaxed muslims, or christians, or any other religion, don't have a problem with marrying people belonging to another religion. By calling Islam backwards because of something that applies just as much to christianity, you're really just flaunting your ignorance.
About muslim countries not denouncing terrorism? You do know that the US is housing an awful lot of ex-terrorists, right? Again, I don't think muslim countries are more of a problem than the US, or any other western country. Many muslim countries *did* denounce 9/11 immediately.
Again, I think it's really sad to see that even here, on a site that I believe is read by intelligent, and better informed people than most, one a site run by someone who actually *knows* both american and muslim cultures first hand, there's still so many people posting without even realizing how ignorant their posts are, who believes that to be truly american, you have to be proud of your country, and you can under no circumstances disagree with the country's course of action. Who believes that it's all "Their" fault, because "WE" can't be wrong.
Let's just consider this, shall we?
Anand makes a post saying how stupid it is that some people judge others based on something as ridiculous as their skin color. Then that thread turns into a discussion of how islam is backwards, how muslims don't seem to be against terrorism.
That sounds very much like what Anand just pointed out. Shallow, ignorant people who judge others based on their color of skin or on their religion, nationality or culture, which they know nothing about.
I expected better from a place like this. I expected, like someone said above, that the average intelligence in this industry was higher...
one big problem muslims around the world is that although they are not contributing to the terrorism, they do not denounce it nearly as much as they should. After 9/11 The White House should not have had to go ask/pay muslim countries to denounce the attacks, those countries should have been the first in line to denounce them.
Put this in perspective: according to the Bible, Christians are not supposed to marry non-Christians. Obiously not everyone follows that, but it is stated in relatively plain English (just don't read an ancient translation).
How come Muslim men can marry women from other religion while Muslim women can't? Isn't this backwards? Shouldn't Muslim women get the same rights? OR is it that Muslim women are look upon as property rather than human beings?
The last time I checked Love was supposed to be a sacred thing with feelings and I think people should be able to marry people from other religion if they love each other.
I know two couples - one is Hindu and one is Muslim who married each other. Guess what they get? They are not accepted by their Muslim community or Hindu community. People frown on them when they realize that they belong to different religions. So now they have a seperate "club" for Hindu-Muslim couples. And this is all happening in the U.S. It is just stupid that you are in such an advanced country, but are so backwards in your thinking.
I am not trying offend anyone, but I think Islam has to be one of the backwards and irrational religions out there.
It is sad to see people here (in a tech forum)who think that religion can dictate who can marry whom. In my country I have seen many inter-religion marriages. Sadly the views by #5 and #19 only reinforce the common conception about intolerence of a certain religion. I have not read the Quran but I am sure that the original sacred text do not have such things in it and it is the preachers who have introduced these silly notions into that religion.
Anand I am an Indian I see nonissues rising to national communal issues on basis of someone from one community did some wrong and somebody commented about that ignorantly.
As everybody see here no 5 no 19 have concerns about a muslim girl marrying a nonmuslim, I belong to community in India which is three religions i.e. Muslim, Hindu and Sikhs and share common blood relations in past and still i see many Hindu and Sikh arrange marriges on basis of caste not religion.
Much bigger question is majority of US citizen should remain cosmopolitan in their line of thinking about people's personnel life. And I think thats still true.
I hope there are much many people who have more interest in articles about computers at Anandtech like me.
For all america is, it also has a lot of uneducated, stupid and ignorant people who can't even write properly and will be the first to wave the amercan flag and point at people crying "OMG! TERRARISTS!!11".
I really think you put too much faith in the people around you. You have been lucky to work in an industry where the average intelligence is considered higher than in other "industries". But the US has quite a big population living at the lower end of the middle class and those are the people who will use any excuse to make themselves feel better - and right now, it's all about being american, freedom and fighting terrorists.
So, yah, you can expect more of that if the US economy gets worse and people will look for ways to release their negative energy.
And I'm not bashing americans here, it's the same behaviour pattern that was used by Adolf to great effect against the jews. You just need to keep you eyes open and know when to move on and move away if things start getting really bad one day. Screw loving your country - because your country doesn't love you.
Hi Anand,
Life is too short to live with hatred in your heart. Pity to stupid idiot that wastes the precious little time he has on God's green earth with hate and ignorance. Your have a rich live ahead of you. Best wishes for a happy forever to you and your dear wife. It seems so strange hearing that you are married. It seems only yesterday that you were a teen with a hardware web page.
As a second generation American with a mixed religious background It has been my experience that the measure of a person is the good they bestow on their fellow man and the idea that there is a greater power than any individual. All else is trivial.
Forget that numbskull and have a good time.
lmao 18, down with musharraf!
i am a muslim and completly agree with all this, its just not right and not a part of our belief to go and blow up and maim people. and i'm not trying to be rude or anything, but what 5 said puzzles me, as far as i know as well, muslim men can marry from the people of the book (christian and jewish) but muslim women cannot marry non-muslims.
Pakistan is the root of problems for all Muslims. They are the home to many terrorist groups and honestly they have created a suspicion in our minds about all Muslims, which is wrong.
From the outside, Pakistan acts as if they are really trying to destroy terrorism, but secretly their government is working with terrorists for "JIHAD". Apparently, Muslims need to learn what Jihad means.
Hameed: I wasn't taking your words out of context, but you are still being ignorant with your comments. "No I don't live in the US and I don't plan to..." Do you really think someone would want you around in this country with that kind of attitude? I would guess not so in a sense, it is better that you are not living here.
On a side note, I agree with everyone. Muslims are the target because many islamic countries are against the westerners. They can't handle the fact that girls wear mini-skirts and people have sex before marriage. For muslims it is evil. As I have said before, I don't care what your beliefs are and it's your choice to follow them, but you can't simply immigrate to US and think like Hameed.
First congrats. I am a American too. We think German because of our last name but my relatives came here in the early 1700 from England. But I grew up in California & NY. The 2 states which have people from everywhere.
Cause I thought the fighters in Afganistan were Freedom Fighter. Rambo even fought with them.
First we all know the media needs to watch how they word things.
I think its the media is partly to blame they call refer to Al-Qa'ida as a terrorist group.
Tim McVeigh is rarely called a terrorist.
In WWII we sent people of Japan decent to camps. Even if they were 4th generation born in the US.
We labeled them as sub-human. While the real monsters were in Germany. I know of the crimes Japan commited during WWII my grandfather was a survivor of The Battan Death March.
Since there was no WMD and no link to terrorists in Iraq. We are given the excuse the people are better off without Sadam because he was EVIL.
I have always been proud to call myself a American till I saw the prison abuse.
I am a huge Ernest Hemingway fan and I went to Cuba. Had to fly from Mexico. Bush accused Cuba of being a evil nation of dealing in Sex Slavery. I didn't see any sign of prositution. I was there for a month. I see prostitution everywhere in California and its legal in Nevada. Cuba had a lower standard of living but it was not poor. Everyone was real friendly very little crime. Beaches were kick butt. Unlike Jamacia were if you leave the resort area you have a good chance you wont come back.
Thank you for taking your time to write such a poignant piece. It's a great reminder for everyone we should be open-minded, and see past the stereo-typical mindset our society, at times, imposes on us.
Welcome back and I'm happy you have started your new life with the your best day ever.
Regarding the Muslim issue, I believe most people don't think all Muslims are extremists. It is unfortunate morons like the one you met exist. They have their own brand of evil.
That said, it is true that almost all terrorists are Muslim. The Muslim community has a very difficult job ahead if they want to differentiate themselves from the radical extremists. The fact of the matter is that the effort will have to come from within the Muslim community. Otherwise, the stereotyping will just get worse.
We need to stop thinking about where we live, and what we are apart of. Religion, country, heritage, exc..
We are human beings. A species that is trying to survive whithin it's enviornment. And we do what we must to survive. Most peoples brains haven't evolved normaly into the adult years because of their enviornments.
That drunk Anand, probably had divorced parents, an abusive, alcoholic father. And didn't go to school.
Sadly, he is one of millions in this country. And I don't blame him. It's how he was raised.
It's important for us to be good parents. To raise our children with the right morals and values to further our species in development.
This country is full of ignorant people. People who would vote for a guy that fits their image as a president rather than a guy that fits Americas and the worlds needs, as a president.
To me, it's not a suprise that drunk said that. And I would personally hand that guy a book rather than take to my head what his dense mind gives thought to.
P.S. Aside from all life mumbo-jumbo, if you need input on what to review next. I'd like to see the socket 939 mobos and cpus, and the future of these parts.
Anand I'm sorry to hear that, that ignorant man you met has put a damper on what should one of the most happiest times of your lives. As you live in America and are a citizen i'm sure that you've also met many more people here that treat all people equal too. Please do not let one man's ignorance reflect on your friends and life that you have spent in the US. Everyday you live your life freely and proudly as a citizen of the US you are proving all those that would be prejudice of you wrong.
I would also like to note that it's true many people in other countries have a HUGE bias against America. It almost seems anything the US does can be skewed to be against them. I am sad to say some of my best friends from other countries have told me some of the most strangest things about the US usually read or heard from their media. Often I tell them.. Well I am American?? do you feel that I am this way too? While they just reply that i'm different.
I'm sorry to say I'm not different. I'm American and I'm proud of it and would die defending everyone who lives here.
This is truly a great country, it just has a few too many idiots that wish to express their own stupidity. I know I'm not alone when I say that I'm sorry for his remark to you.
Enjoy your marriage and enjoy living here, its your country too. Don't let anyone take away your happiness, you deserve to be very happy.
Again, I'm sorry for that person and what he said to you. 99% of the Americans do not feel that way toward you, I guaranty it.
I visit this site all the time, you've taught me a lot and also helped me give advise to others. You should smile proudly for what you've done for all of us. I wonder what THAT guy has contibuted?
#5 Hameed: It's ignorant people like you who cause trouble in U.S. (indirectly). I don't know if you are living in the US or not, but if you are then with that kind of attitude you are likely to annoy some people.
I am a Sikh with US Citizenship. Heck, it would matter if I have a citizenship or not, because once I landed foot in the land of freedom, I automatically gained all the rights and priveleges that the natives of this country have.
You have to feel part of this country to be accepted by everyone. If you are going to lead your life preaching about your religion, which is not bad, and ignore what happens to the US and then say "I am glad this happened to you," you are obviously going to be isolated. You have to show pride for US, you have to cry for US, you have to laugh for US. This is how you get accepted.
If you are laughing while everyone is crying on Sept. 11, I am sure people will hate you and quite honestly, you can't blame them.
I am not saying that you should quit following your religious beliefs or your ignore your thoughts, but at least don't be negative towards your home (assuming that you are currently residing in US).
That was rather stupid to say the least. What he said to you was nothing, but I understand the frustration you go through. There have been quite a few hate crimes noted in states like New York and Washington D.C. Some idiots went into Muslim Mosques (Churches) and open fired. Some people even targetted Sikhs who lived in New York, California, and Washington (Sikhs have beards and they wear Turbans like Middle Easterners, but they are not Muslims).
Not to mention the fact that even the government ignored some of these hate crimes. Some Sikhs and Muslims were forced to strip to their underwears in the middle of the street in New York by FBI. Some Sikhs were arrested and were under questioning for six months in jail for no apparent reason. Another sikh NYPD Officer was fired because he wore a Turban and had beard, while his brother was promoted to a Liutenant in NYPD because he had cut his hair.
I think some people have a hard time
understanding that just because someone is a Muslim or has a beard and wears a Turban doesn't make him "Osama's brother" or part of a Terrorist group. Eventually the emotions will settle, but every year around Sept. 11th, these emotions will re-emerge, which is quite sad.
Like many people said, ignore these ignorant people. You are successful, you are happy, you are married, you are leading an ideal life. Be happy and don't stress yourself. You belong here like the rest of us. :)
I am NOT an American. No really, I am not. I am an Arabic Muslim. Does that make me any less than anyone else? Does that make me a terrorist? Many people espicially Americans believe so it seems.
In a way I am happy that this happened to you and you are talking about it, may be this will help more people realize that stereotyping is just wrong.
While you guys remember sep 11, just remember that while a thousands of americans died that day hundreds of thousands have died and still dying in the "war against terrorisim" how many of them really had anything to do with terrorisim?
BTW Anand, when you said "My mom is a muslim" I assume your father isn't? How could they get married then?
I am currently taking CompE courses at Georgia Tech. At Tech we have a very large population of Muslim from abroad as well as other foreign students. I know a few and they are all pretty cool.
What you encountered is not an American problem. It is a human problem. In a way, the guy who said that to you is a lot like the terrorists (or a school bully). He is angry and hateful; condemning without even really knowing. People find it all too easy to dehuminize others by thinking of them in terms of groups/races/religions or characteristics that make them different, instead of them as the individuals that they are. When you no longer think of other people in human terms, all manner of horrible acts seem justified. From tormenting someone constantly to killing it is all the result of the same thing.
It is a problem that occurs all over the world. Many people in other countries do judge America, not by the ones you named, but by our leaders and other famous people. They think of Americans as gun crazy cowboys or greedy capitalist pigs or whatever.
I'm sorry you went through that. But don't take it personally or as a sign that America is going down the $#!++er.
That is just the way things balance out sometimes. You are having the most enjoyable days of your life and some complete nincompoop has to come along and screw it up with his nonsense. Don't sweat it, Anand.
First, congratulations on your wedding. Welcome back. I'm sure you have a lot of catching up to do so I don't expect tons of articles right away, but I hope you can get back in the mix soon.
I won't say anything to make you feel unwelcome, but I can't say the same for everyone. I hope you can find a way to look past any ignorant remarks that others may make. Who knows what was going on the mind of that drunk? He was WAY out of line. I think you handled it the right way - I think I would have been tempted to hand him his head.
I have a co-worker who was born in Lebanon (a christian - if it matters), and he travels back every year. His comments about the mid-east are about the same as yours. There are hard-liners there, as there are here, but most people are trying to interpret the rules of their religion in a way that allow them to live a simple, decent life. They do this because, in their hearts, most people are decent and want to be treated that way.
I live about 5 miles west of NYC, and from my office in Rutherford, NJ I saw both towers fall. I lost several former co-workers and schoolmates that day, and I haven't been back to Ground Zero since - though I do get into the city often. I am going back to GZ today. I'll take the Path train right into the pit (unless they have it closed today) and then walk uptown to meet some friends and hang in Central Park - the weather should be nice this evening. (It's a fairly long walk from GZ to CP, and it will give me a chance to reflect on the day).
That's not cool. Just pity his ignorance and enjoy your honeymoon. Most of the rest of us out here are sane and don't make such assumptions. You were born here and have just as much of a stake in America as any of the rest of us do, so just remember that opinions are like a__holes and everybody has one. Some just stink more than others.
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295 Comments
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anamerican - Monday, November 8, 2004 - link
i'm ashamed at what he said...all americans should be
Anonymous - Sunday, November 7, 2004 - link
Just nuke IraqAnonymous - Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - link
Wow 4 more years! 4 more years to kick muslim butts!Anonymous - Tuesday, November 2, 2004 - link
# 286You mother fucking muslim dog, go find a child to fuck like ur filthy so called prophet Mohammed; we could then find a place to accommodate you in our prisons, or better still in Guantanamo Bay with your perverted muslim terrorist brethren.
banibratadutta - Monday, November 1, 2004 - link
Dude, I'm an Indian and a Hindu (if that matters!), who has spent about 2 good years in US, and now back in India. You are sikh and Hameed is Muslim, and one thing that is common between the two of you is that both have your opinion. Hameed is not in US and if he doesn't want to be there, then it's his choice. US is a nice to country to live and probably settled down in, but Hameed maybe doesn't feel that way. I do not see, how that make him "unfriendly" or "unwelcome" or "hostile" ?? You BTW seem to be going a little overboard about your love for the country (US), but your love for your motherland (where you were born) is it that strong ?? I'm not sure how many level-headed americans would appreciate your "deep" feelings for that country! Frankly I have nothing against and nothing for any particular community or religion. I'm fairly religion agnostic, but respect every religion. What Anand faced, was most unfortunate, but basically "you" are here acting almost like the drunk guy. Why not let hameed have his opinion ?? If wearing mini-skirts and having sex before marriage, is your idea of freedom and liberty, then well dude -- then you are looking just for a community, not a country!!my 2 cents worth.
Anonymous - Thursday, October 28, 2004 - link
but I care very much about everyone- especially the making and molding of our "newer" (under 13,500 years) Americans which are accepted by all.Damn dude you're OLD!
Brian - Thursday, October 28, 2004 - link
I loved your story and your experiences with your wedding!! I share your feelings you have about your wife -just like my own wife! Congratulations!It's hard to take that there are those out there make anyone feel unwelcome, but many times they have their own internal battles. I may be somewhat of a consrvative guy, but I care very much about everyone- especially the making and molding of our "newer" (under 13,500 years) Americans which are accepted by all. We all know it won't happen 100%, but a guy that doesn't accept you doesn't accept me either with my ancestors here many hundreds (possibly thousands) of years, so I am just as hurt- but please don't ever feel unwelcome. If we all contribute whatever talents and strengths we have (and can) for each other (and BTW you have given me and many others LOTS of info and insight on this site) then we are ALL welcome as possible everywhere, certainly here! Thanks for all you and the people at this site do. -Brian
Frankie - Thursday, October 21, 2004 - link
Great job on your site and congrats on your wedding!.Don't mind the fools in the street, cos if we stoop to that level, we will end up just like them!. Not even worth a nanosecond of our time.
Good to see you diversified and did the Mac article. Nice touch, though I considered my self pretty much a MacIdiot, just repected that platform for what it can do. I'm a PC guy. Love Linux and Solaris X-86.
...Non-American, resident of Planet Earth.
SleepNoMore - Monday, October 18, 2004 - link
It's obvious to me that a lot of these "anonymous" jerks are one and the same person taking/inventing two synthetic sides to muckrake things up. Sort of like the same actor wearing a different hand puppet on each hand. Look at their posts, you'll see through this.As for the "legitimate" (hah!) anonymous polarized "forum road-rage" muckrakers: I am reminded of the Mark Twain idea of putting them all in a cage with each other and watching them go at it. : )
Glad you're here Anand!
Anonymous - Saturday, October 16, 2004 - link
#287LOL
Anonymous - Saturday, October 16, 2004 - link
#286You shithead! you goddamn mother fucker. Eat and Drink pig shit and urine. You are a bastard. your father is a father. your 14 generation are mother fucking bastards. So stop talking and do what you were doing (lick the slimy pig shithole.)
MU HA HA .
Anonymous - Saturday, October 16, 2004 - link
#282You fucking Islamic pig. Shut up your fucking mouth. Your prophet was a fucking pervert, gigolo and murderer. Islam = Terrorism, Terrorist = Muslim.
Dog go and eat your pork.
ILUVDENIS - Thursday, October 14, 2004 - link
Denis,I don't really have a point to understand. I very often create posts meant to cause more discussion or chaos. It is in my nature. I am just being ornery. I like to yell fire in a crowded theatre.
In response though about not being able to marry someone of a different religion or caste; many times the advice is good. The bible says not to be "unequally yoked". Meaning that if you both are on the same page spiritually (as well as all the other area) it makes for a better marriage. I'm not saying that's the only way a married is "golden" but it can help.
Not all religous texts are the same and some invite prejudice, violence and hate when it comes to certain groups or classes. That obviously is a mistake that will perpetuate scorn for generations. Especially in the hands of uneducated people in 3rd world countries that no nothing other than religious zealotry.
Denis - Thursday, October 14, 2004 - link
#283 No:Not sure I understand your reply.
Do you say it is fundamental obediance to marry someone from your own religion? My partner is Hindu. In her culture, you are required to marry someone of the same caste. Some say it is because different castes have different values and living together would cause only tension and sorrow.
In my opinion this kind of rule is good mainly to perpetuate tradition, religion and prejudice.
And when I say one should be flexible and pragmatic with regards to religion, I mean your own religious beliefs and acts.
No - Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - link
#278 Denis is like many Americans who are atheist or agnostic and believe they've deeply delved into spiritual issues.Someone who has read a TIME article that has summed up all understand for any faith. What it really comes down to is the idea of incorporating some kind of belief system that requires you to sacrifice some so called freedom: like spanking it in a .25c peep show in New York or banging your neighbors wife (God fogive me). People can't deal with that. They would rather "be flexible and pragmatic with regards to religion" which means doing what they feel comfortable with and abandoning everything else. I'm not talking about selling your Daughter into slavery but fundamental obedience.
Denis, it is not a matter of who did what, it's a matter of what YOU do. So if a priest gets dirty with a choir boy the whole damn Faith is faulted? I thought it was about what YOU are doing and your spiritual walk. If seeing bad things deters you from Faith than you have no understand of Faith to begin with.
That's like me saying every Muslim should die just because of 9/11. What's the point? Was the entire Muslim community responsible for that? No. However, I do agree with many here about the overall errancy of Islam and the lack of outrage to terrorism in the name of Islam.
Anonymous - Monday, October 11, 2004 - link
Goddamn motherfucking asshole american, time to wake up, bastards. more of this gonna happen soon, and you deserve this. yes you motherfucker lechers do deserve this.Dooms day is here.
Nath - Monday, October 11, 2004 - link
#278 DenisAll the other major religions, Christianity, Hinduism etc have more or less adapted to the times. The Catholic Church for instance has acknowledged moral responsibilities for its misdeeds like the crusades, inquisitions etc. Hinduism acknowledges that cast discrimination (called untouchability) is wrong and was a mistake; if you visit any major Hindu temple in India this message is clearly displayed. Similarly Sati has been banned for over 200 years. Religious bigotry and intolerance is more on the individualistic in nature and not institutionalized.
Not so with Islam. In most Islamic countries the propagation of other religions is prevented by legal instruments like Pakistan’s anti blasphemy law or out rightly banned as in Saudi Arabia etc. In the north of Nigeria the building site allocated to a new church is usually the rubbish dump (I mean literally, no exaggeration). Many Islamic countries practice primitive Islamic laws, like stoning to death (Judaism and Christianity no longer practice this) or amputation are a common form of punishment. INTOLERANCE IS INSTITUTIONALIZED IN ANY MUSLIM WORLD (Turkey and Malaysia being the exceptions). Ask any non-Muslim living there; they will confirm what I say.
Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism etc have moved ahead with times. But Islam is stuck in the middle ages. I don’t think they can progress out of there as; Islam is essentially a medieval religion.
Anonymous - Monday, October 11, 2004 - link
#279Man,you're da bomb:))
BOMB - Monday, October 11, 2004 - link
I got three words for you: FUEL AIR BOMB. That's all we need to use. Drop 20 of those suckers and you'll shut them up real quick. LONG LIVE AMERICA AND THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE! COOK BURGERS IS OUR TRADITION, MUCH LIKE A FOREIGN MISSION!HA HA HA HA. Anyone see the movie 'HAMBURGER'. Man, good laughs.
Denis - Monday, October 11, 2004 - link
Sure the fundaments of the muslim religion are not all great. I feel the same about any religion. Whether be it by the hand of their founders, or the priests after them, there is always something wrong in all organised religions.It is up to the followers to make informed decisions based on their beliefs, their education and their intelligence. Maybe in a middle east country it is not suitable for a muslim to marry a non-muslim (community matters). In a western country it is perfectly acceptable to marry outside your religion (individualistic approach). One needs to be flexible and pragmatic with regards to religion.
Denis - Monday, October 11, 2004 - link
Anand, I am sorry this still happens. Maybe you would feel more at home if your political representatives were more like you. Gone through the same experience as you.Some people made a point that by posting this entry about that guy, you are merely "whinging". Maybe they are right. Maybe you can do something about it. Engage in making the world a more educated, more tolerant place. You have a name, you can help.
Hunter - Monday, October 11, 2004 - link
And isn't it funny how all the people...or at least most of the people who are using the foul language and ignorance don't leave their names? Why is that? Just a thought...Hunter
Hunter - Monday, October 11, 2004 - link
Wow, and all I wanted to say was congratulations on your wedding. I'm hoping yours was as special and unforgettable day as mine was. Good luck and hope you and your wife live long and productive lives.Hunter
Nath - Sunday, October 10, 2004 - link
#271Countries like India and the Philippines etc, have tried to be on the good books of the rest of the world, as they fight Islamic terrorism. Fat good it has done them. Terrorist trained from across their borders come in and commit atrocious terrorist acts.
America chooses to have the war on Islamic terrorism in fought the Islamic world itself (where it is bred). It is always better to fight the battle on a foreign soil rather than on the home front.
Anonymous - Sunday, October 10, 2004 - link
#27290% of mother fucking Muslims are terrorists. Islam is a terrorist religion, it's founder the bastard Mohammed is a fucking morally bankrupt pedophile, gigolo, mass murderer and terrorist. Islam is the cause for disruption of world peace since the fucking Mohammed started hallucinating. All Muslim countries are ignorant, intolerant, misgoverned shit holes. You fucking Muslim bastards contemplate on this.
Anonymous - Sunday, October 10, 2004 - link
More than 50% of these mother fucker Americans are bastards. I really mean bastards (no origin of fathers). The society is morally bankrupt, now they gonna be financially bankrupt (as their bastasd Prez keeps 'waging war against terrorist(?)' and squander billion of dollars in the process. He is voted one danger man in the world. Americans are most ugly goddam mother fucking ignorant+arrogant nation in the world. It is time of self reckoning.Anonymous - Sunday, October 10, 2004 - link
Anon: you are acting like a jerk. America under the present Government has made itself alienated from the rest of the civilized world. All that it can do is to kill innocent people around the world, create more terrorist and like blood sucking leeches, tries to dry up wealth, resources of another country. So don't be so proud. As you are not doing anything to be proud off.Anonymous - Thursday, October 7, 2004 - link
Well said Nanook from the North.Nanook from the North - Thursday, October 7, 2004 - link
Grow up you snivelling little brat. If this is the first time you've been insulted, then you were probably born with a gold spoon in your mouth. At seventeen not everyone in this country was driving a BMW to high school. We were cleaning the old used spark plugs, vacuuming our air filters, using duct tape to patch muffler holes.When the muslim community was questioned about the movements and contacts of Mohamed Ata (Flew one of the planes into the WTC) here in Portland Maine where he lived and planned all of his movements, in this free country, not one muslim spoke up to offer information, the community leader did not feel at all a little resposible and refused further comment.
Don't try to tell us that Iran would not behead a black or white American walking down a street in terhan with his wife uncovered. Can you ask where the local Catholic Church is in Iran.
Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech. That 1s what you have here in American but you only choose to defend Iran and the muslim way of life. Some people just don't give a shit, what they do give a shit about is that no one is going to harrass another American except for another American. The clerics in iran are the ones making all the decisions in the muslim world. Only the muslims can police thier own people.
You kiss Iran's ass like it was one of the best countries in the world. I am proud of my French heritage but I surely would not be proactive to a country like France except for the bunch of cowards that they are.
I was born in this country and had a french accent growing up because of my parents and I was always critized about being in America and speaking english, being called a frog. A Big Deal?, no. Why, because I was calling the dude with the bulgarian accent comrade, and communist, we were friends.
Get over it!! GROW UP, BE AN AMERICAN!!! Get witty, you should have told the asshole, "that's right and I know were you live.
Make no mistake about it, the people that died for this country did it for you, your Irish neighbor, your German Mechanic, your Israli shop owner, your blue blooded Englishman that burned down the White House.
Read up on our History for once. BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT, IN THE BATTLE FOR FREEDOM, THE BULLET I'D TAKE WOULD BE TO DEFEND YOUR WAY OF LIFE AND THE RIGHT OF PEOPLE TO BE IDIOTS. THE BULLET I PUT BETWEEN THE EYES OF A TERRORIST MAY JUST WELL BE A MUSLIM. COULD YOU DO THAT "I AM AN AMERICAN". WOULD YOU KILL ANOTHER MUSLIM IN DEFENSE OF BEING AN AMERICAN?
WOULD YOU DO IT FOR US.
Anonymous - Wednesday, October 6, 2004 - link
#267Read posts; 165, 196, 216, 232, 239, 260 for why it sucks.
Anonymous - Wednesday, October 6, 2004 - link
to #264:Does it really now? Explain WHY it sucks
Bala - Wednesday, October 6, 2004 - link
Anand,I've lived in many countries and worked with different cultures. I experienced what you talked about living in California, and now living in Germany as well.
See my friend, its a White world, and we've chosen to live in their land. Theres no use lamenting because no matter how many generations or how much taxes u pay, you'll always be Ausländer.
Vikram - Tuesday, October 5, 2004 - link
Hi Anand,It's a great thing you got going here on this site, please don't spoil it by encouraging political discussions. It reminds me of the fray on slate. Every moron with an opinion and a keyboard writes trash.
Congrats on your wedding. I am sorry to hear that some idiot disrupted your honeymoon. Being of Indian origin and having to travel atleast thrice a week due to my job, I know what you are talking about. Whenever I enter a plane, I feel people stare at me like I was as guilty of the crime of 9/11. And for some reason my bags go through the extra security screening even though I am a frequent flyer.
My question is that since the IRA is a terrorist organization, can I assume that all white people are terrorists or since the KKK was an exclusively white-male organisation are all white males racists?
I don't respond to the stares, because you know what, f**k them.
Anonymous - Tuesday, October 5, 2004 - link
US Rocks!Islam Sucks!
RaceTraitor - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
#255"there is one GREATER "group" that we all belong
to and is superior to any other "group"... the
Common Brotherhood and Sisterhood of being
AMERICANS!"
There we go again...
Feeling superior *again* are we?
And when you were giving him compliments, he was
"very American" and on his moment of "weakness" he was very "un-American"...
Sigh... some people will never learn.
RaceTraitor - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
#160"As an American I am proud to live in my country;"
Please tell me why? What great effort of yours made you live in that country?
I am not proud to live in Europe. I didn't do anything to make this happen. It is my habbit to only be proud on things I achieve.
"no other country provides the freedoms and
economic opportunity as the US does."
Euh? Please tell me: Have you lived in every other
country in the world? How would you know that your
country provides more freedoms (ignoring the fact that more freedom might not necessarily mean better life) then any other or gives you more economic opportunity?
It is exactly that kind of cr*p that is annoying the rest of the world. "We are better then you. Our country is better then yours."
Please, try to appreciate the existance of countries other then your USA. Civilization was not born in the USA, neither was freedom of speech , democrasy, science, math, your language and what not.
The one original thing that was born in America was been destroyed by your noble ancestors.
abi - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
Hmm.. reading akll the 260 (!!) posts makes a few things clear...*America is the land of the free, Every one can give their opinions... Even Idiots. Anand, I have been frequenting ur site for past 4 years, All along i thought u were a hindu (Anand sounds hindu), But does it matter? NO, it doesnt, I would have still visited ur site if ur name was Bolzkovitch (as long as u dont name it as bolzkovitchtech.com , too complicated to remember LOL).
If u R a muslim, so what? It doesnt make u any less of a human being...!
But as somebody as pointed out, Discrimination has plagued human beings as long as we existed, in America its discrimination based on color/caste , In india its based on caste (also states, we have very colourful and vivd Cultures for each state).
But at the end of the day, the great strength of the human race (The reason for our survival) is that when it matters, we are willing to look past these barriers and work together...!
Oh by the way, as some of u might have guessed, Im from India.
YukiKaze - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
I'm glad to hear there is at least one sane muslim in the world. In my country muslims attempted to murder the director of the publishing company that published Satanic Verses.In the aftermath of that a tv channel made it their mission to proove that most muslims didn't support this at all. They were unable to find a single muslim who was willing to stand up and condemn that attempted murder in public. There were plenty of people who expressed regret that it wasn't them who attempted though.
Hell, even self-proclaimed "moderate" muslim organizations publicly supported the idea of death penalty for critizising Islam.
That whole episode, which lasted about a month and had comments from literally 100s of muslims, just blew me away and my view of Islam now is that it is a massive power system with brainwashing of members from birth. I think that if muslims want to be looked at as human beings they're going to have to act like it. Like you do.
Good luck with your marriage.
Anonymous - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
I think the muslims are the cause of all world problems...Wipe them out and the world is a safer placeRahim Z. - Sunday, October 3, 2004 - link
hello, i think that u should ignore what others might say, because i have faced the same problem. See, i am afghani, and some people make fun of me too, but i dont pay attention, and so they just forget about it. And now, people dont make fun of me. Oh and i have friends from japan, netherlands, and everywhere else. please email me.Ben Adelman - Sunday, October 3, 2004 - link
I think the jews are the cause of all world problems...Wipe them out and the world is a safer placeDanzig50sw - Friday, October 1, 2004 - link
SirPity me I am white. Pity me I am black. To the majority of Americans skin color does not matter. What you do in life matters. Racism is not about education about a person's culture. The culture does not matter to bigots. Uneducated racists hate because it is easy. For example you see Rodney King getting beat on TV or Martin Luther King getting shot, certain people generalize under race. They fail to get to know the individual. Never generalize for that is the heart of racism. We Americans are individuals not under our race, ethnicity, religion or place of birth but becaause of who we are and how we treat others. I'm sorry this happened in your and my country. Bless you
Brandon - Friday, October 1, 2004 - link
Anand: First of all, I want to point out to everyone here and to you yourself (as you might sometimes forget) that you are *AMERICAN* just as much as I am American. Where your mom comes from does NOT make you Iranian just as much as where my Grandmothers came from does not make me British, German or Russian. What you have *DONE* with your (so far) short life is 110% American, through and through... in fact, it is far more American than most of your audience or most of the average "americans", for that matter. I might not have all the facts straight here, forgive me for my errors, but I have been reading your site and LEARNING FROM YOU for about... maybe 6-7 years now... your site (and Tom's) were easily the 2 main sites that gave me the extra knowledge I needed to excel in my budding profession. Starting out at the grass roots level that you did and through lots of hard work and dedication you have achieved an AMAZING spot of eminence in the tech sector throughout this country and around the world. YOU EXEMPLIFY WHAT IT IS TO BE AMERICAN... except for one thing: that for a moment you believed some stupid loser and doubted yourself. You should commit to yourself and to God (Allah) that you will never ever think of yourself again as non-American, nor ever again think of how much you "just want to go home" which is "anywhere but here"... that was wrong, that was un-American, that was a moment, albeit a very small moment, where you failed yourself, your family, your God, and your fellow Americans; never again doubt who you are because of some jerk that clearly doesn't comprehend who it is that stands before him. Always be the model that you were destined to be!I know this is long... I'll try and sum up the rest of my thoughts as quickly as I can... most of the authors here are far too polarized on this issue. First of all, some take the position of basically saying that he shouldn't have said what he said... this is his PERSONAL blog where he expresses PERSONAL feelings... if you don't like what he says here, I think you should just get bent! Others here seem to take varius positions between learning to just deal with racism, to the thought of basically as I read someone say something to the effect of anti-muslimism is perhaps good or some crap like that... let me just say that both viewpoints are about as diametrically opposed views on racism as you can get. What muslims, indians, jews, christians, mormons, mexicans, russians, africans, and any other "group" has to realize when they come to (or finally realize that they are in) America is this: there is one GREATER "group" that we all belong to and is superior to any other "group"... the Common Brotherhood and Sisterhood of being AMERICANS! The sooner we learn to set aside our differences and cherish and revel in the one awesome and central commonality that we all have, the sooner that we will past our little hang-ups and racist/nationalist crap! Next time someone treats you bad because of your color, race, or creed, try this: go out of your way to be decent, polite, and kind to that person... odds are that that person is like that because they have been running shy of kindness from other people in their life and certainly haven't learned that it comes "from people like you" (whoever "you" happens to be at the time)... if your actions don't work (likely they won't), be kind and curteous as you are leaving... EVENTUALLY your action and/or the action of the next guy after you will 'click' with that individual and they'll "get it". (I.E. Don't "flip them off" as some reader commented... I admit I do it over road-rage issues, my bad... but over interpersonal relationships, this will definitely only excacerbate the problem!)
Some facts about me, in the interest of fairness:
* I am white
* I am a natural-born American
* I am heterosexual
* I am derived from ancestors mainly from "Europe"
* I am "Mormon" (thus, I am very familiar with this whole 'prejudice' topic and have had to "practice what I preach" a great deal when it comes to responding to people's attacks on my religion)
* I have been to about a dozen other countries and am intensely interested in other societies and cultures; though I realize, as someone wrote here, that America has created the most amount of good in the shortest amount of time for the greatest number of people.
no name - Friday, October 1, 2004 - link
Only once felt foreign - hey that's good. I was actually thrown out of one country (not us) - for being foreign. The locals did not mind me at all, but another foreigner did. And I'm white, did not look that foreign to them (or the person who made up a story about me in order to get people not like me)251- am sure its much harder if you look any different from the majority, but were you a white american in europe nowadays, you might run into people saying things to you because of the war, which is not popular, at least the people of european descent get along with each other where you live, it is not so in europe always.
Anonymous - Friday, October 1, 2004 - link
Well said #252I to am from another country. I echo your sentiments. While things are not perfect, the US is one of the best countries in the world when it comes to protecting the individual rights of its citizens.
Anonymous - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
I was born in another country, and I've traveled all over the world- some places were great, some sucked. The U.S. is far from perfect, but in it's short history, it has managed to create the greatest amount of good for the largest number of people.Anonymous - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
Anand, what you experienced wasreality. I'm surprised that it is the first time you have been made to feel "foreign."The truth of the matter is that as long as the color of your skin is not white you will have to hear those things for the rest of your life.
For example if you were an immigant who came from some European country. I can bet you that the drunk would not have said those things.
And him bing drunk is no excuse, the truth of what he what feels is coming out of his mouth.
It has been over what, 100 years? Do you think that African Americans are still treated or thought of as equals?
Ofcourse there are pleanty of people that have respect for everybody, but there are still a lot of people who do not.
Arian - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
Michael Moore has stated that Americans are the dumbest people on the planet. I very much beg to differ. We are some of the most ignorant people on the planet)Americans tend to be very uneducated about other cultures and frankly, dont care to know. Most Americans dont know an Indian from an Arab or a Muslim from a Hindu.
Its sad but true and it most likely will never change. After all, why learn about other cultures when you can watch Friends or some stupid reality show? Why go to India when you can go to Vegas?
assemblage - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
It seems non-caucasians think they have a monopoly on negative experiences based upon their race.Anonymous - Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - link
# 247Islamophobia, would be the right word. This phobia might be actually good. The reason for this is that all the terrorists trying to hurt us today are MUSLIMS. They draw their inspiration and motivation from the teachings of the Quran. Their fellow Muslims who claim to be innocent people, do nothing to condemn their actions. In fact talk to them in private, you will realize he smug satisfaction they derive from these actions.
Go to any mosque in the third world today, listen to what their imams (priests) say about America and the west, the kind of hatred they inspire and their glowing references to these terrorists, then you will be realize, Islamophobia is not a bad thing. In fact it helps keep us safer.
Anonymous - Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - link
So you have no problem fostering xenophobia and hatred on your forums, but as soon as something happens to you personally, it's an issue?Take a look at what your members are saying, and then you'll probably understand better why this happened. Frankly I'm shocked that you seem so surprised at this.
Shree - Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - link
I'm with you bro. Its happened to me too. The world filled with ignorance. Have fun..Anonymous - Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - link
Anand, great website and thanks.I have a few contrarian comments ;)
Just do remember that the majority of the terrorists were Saudi's financed by those well meaning average Muslims that would never hurt a fly. The point being that just as wasps allowed the KKK to exist with a wink and a nod in their communities, so do many average Muslims that would never do an act of harm. However, by not doing anything they could be considered part of the problem just as would those socalled Christians that allowed the KKK to exist in their midsts.
Also remember that many of these troubled zealots come from the radical Muslim schools which are largely financed by well meaning Muslims. Muslims around the world need to move to address these things. The problem can only be solved BY Muslims. Until these terrorists are ACTIVELY ostracized and destroyed BY THE Muslim community we will always have the problem.
gimmeabreak - Monday, September 27, 2004 - link
"Over two hundred people could have spent this forum time organizing, contributing, and otherwise pushing society in a more constructive direction."C'mon lets be real. Some ass hurt Anand's feelings. Your bound to find these jerks everywhere; driving with your family, out in public, wherever. Anand wrote a weblog post about feeling discriminated against to people who obviously wouldn't treat him that way (namely all of us). We all appreciate Anand and Anandtech for that matter. However, 200 or so collective "I'm sorrys" apologizing for some idiot makes no sense. What the hell for? To make Anand feel better? Gee, I wish I had that luxury. Anand could have just as easily given him the bird, voiced his opinion, or just walked off.
Sometimes you have one of those days and end up feeling like the world's against you. Sometimes it's other people that make you feel that way. It doesn't matter if they're black, white, bipolar, midgets, Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. If Anand is a U.S. citizen and feels so strongly about this why would one drunken jerk throw him in such flux? He knows the truth, isn't that the most important thing? Isn't that enough?
As far as the religous debate going on, who cares if people do it? It's constructive, and I don't see any threat in their passionate responses about their beliefs. Perhaps if we'd be more willing to listen than piss and moan when someone talks about religion we'd get somewhere.
Anonymous - Monday, September 27, 2004 - link
#232Good post! Now I understand why Muslim terrorists love beheading their hostages; Old Mo' prescribed it!
Peter Lewis - Monday, September 27, 2004 - link
I'm about to contradict myself.Generally speaking, these posts are well-informed, sympathetic, and probably very appreciated by anyone who has been subject to this kind of harassment. However, let's put ourselves, for example, in Anand's shoes; would you rather see sympathy or action?
We're all familiar with the phrase "Actions speak louder than words". For the sake of that wisdom, and for the sake of many more people than just Anand, suck it up, move on, and try to make manifest these ideas in a world not constricted to text. Once again, I'm sure the sympathy is appreciated. Remember, though, that we're striving for a world where sympathy of this form should not need to exist - at least some of us are. Over two hundred people could have spent this forum time organizing, contributing, and otherwise pushing society in a more constructive direction.
Save your words, that they may empower your actions.
Charles Hammond - Monday, September 27, 2004 - link
As an American who was born of American parents I never even realized that you were actually not an American of European decent. It would be somewhat odd to even see a man with a turban where I live which is Near St Louis, MO. A lot of the people in this region might be considered Rednecks or traditional Americans from European ancestry with the exception of African Americans who I am guessing originated from African Decendents (Duh). I would like to add that I was actually born at the Nauseur Air Depot near Casablanka Morocco. My father was in the Air Force so I was actually born in Africa. If I claimed joint citizenship that would make be a White African American. This is a little on the absurd side, but it belays my background. I am a son of an Air Force Enlisted man so I also got a chance to live in Italy near Ciampino Air Base for 3 years which was quite exciting. Then when I grew up I spent two tours of duty in South Korea in the US Army. This just shows that I have some experience living in foreign countries and being exposed to other cultures.When I came back from South Korea there was a time when my wife, who was from Seoul Korea, was contacted by someone who was from North Korea asking here if she would be interested in visiting there. I was in the Army at the time and she was afraid to bring it up. She is by no means stupid and just ignored the phone call. If she had told me about it at the time, I would have reported it as an attempted act by an enemy agent to get us to commit espionage. This is revealing because it shows that people that are from or nearly from your home country are not hesitant to attempt to get a foreigner to give them support or commit espionage in aiding the enemy.
My wife has often been targeted by police because she is different. She doesnt appear to fit in to the normal inhabitant of this area. Whether this is profiling or discrimination or just common sense reasoning on the part of a police I will leave it up to you to decide. I know she has expressed her disappointment with this kind of treatment, and it has upset me a time or two. It is bad enough that she does not speak English as her primary language and learned to drive after she arrived in this country. It does make things difficult at times.
Even though I understand this sort of thing I also know that many people from the middle east have been called on from friends or their countryment to help other people from their home country who may be working in the USA or actually immigrating themselves. This was a technique that some of the terrorists used during their stay in the USA before they committed their terrorists acts. I mention because I want to warn you and others about this. While it is an innocent act to give aid to your fellow countrymen, it might be considered aiding and abetting the enemy or even an act of treason in this country by the FBI.
There has been a lot of talk lately in this country that Muslims do not speak out against acts of terror. There was a gentleman who was a muslim that had written a book about this that was from a muslim country that was on the local radio station. He said that sometimes it seems that muslims may not aid the terrorists. However, he went on to say that some muslims even though they would not commit a terrorist act or help a terrorist sometimes in their hearts they have a gleeful feeling when a terrorist is successful. This does point to a problem even though from your own admission you may not have the same point of view.
I am sorry you have become upset in this occurrance, but I would ask you, if the person that offended you was in your mother's country, how would they be treated? It might be they would be treated well, maybe not. It probably would depend who they were associating with. I think there is good and bad everywhere, and that we should look for the good. Maybe one day you should wear your turban and wave the American Flag on independence day or maybe just a US flag pin to show your patriotism. I hope you have not been offended too bad.
May Alah Bless the Merciful.
Ramon Caballero - Monday, September 27, 2004 - link
Congrats on your wedding!And I am very sorry for your feelings, you are right and the Anon above me is also right, damn!.
What th f%&k is the solution? I guess is "Don't hate anyone", but it is as simpler as it is very difficult.
I'm Mexican, and I would like to think we don't have racial problems but hey, every gang that hates another gang is the same, just to country level.
I hope this don't get out of control (more).
Enjoy your marriage..(I am 10 years married so far, very nice)
Anonymous - Monday, September 27, 2004 - link
Lets simplify the Issue.All the terrorists trying to inflict harm on Americans today are Muslims, mostly from the Middle East. There is nothing wrong on Americans keeping a watchful eye on Muslims and Arabs; after all it pays to be cautious.
In the same light there is nothing wrong in our law enforcement agencies stereotyping and profiling those who are trying to hurt us.
If Muslims and Arabs want to integrate peacefully in the US today, they should do their bit to make us safer; they could start by condemning terrorism.
If you search the forums dealing with terrorism around the country today, you find the majority of Muslims there giving excuses for the terrorists and reasons for why Islamic terrorism exists; You do not find many of them condemning terrorism. It is very disturbing when the deeds of a terrorist are not condemned, even more when excuses, justifying them are given!
Until Arabs and Muslims, come out strongly against terrorism, we will consider you with suspicion.
SleepNoMore - Monday, September 27, 2004 - link
God bless you Anand. I am glad you are here.Anonymous - Monday, September 27, 2004 - link
i agree with #236I am an American right now living in Canada and next month moving to Switzerland... The place your from is really irrelevant and although this issue is most visible at home in the US, it exists everywhere and its equally unacceptable from any side of the circle.
Anonymous - Monday, September 27, 2004 - link
How about we simplify the issue:American or not, nobody deserves to be treated with disrespect based on stereotypes or other BS.
We're all on this planet together.
Mark Anderson - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - link
I would imagine that many Americans feel that Arabic men between the ages of 18 and 38 COULD POSSIBLY mean to harm people who are not of the faith, in essence infidels. Get a grip, I believe most, if not all of the 9-11 terrorists were from Saudi ARABIA. While I don't condone or agree with the actions of the putz that insulted you, many Americans will be looking askance at their Arabic neighbors and wondering if they will harm their families by doing something crazy. Bomb me once shame on you, bomb me twice, shame on me.It's too bad that a few whackos have messed it up for everyone else, but that's the way it is now.
BTW, congratulations on your wedding.
Anonymous - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - link
Anand,I am very sorry this happened to you. I can see that it hurt you tremedously and it should not have happened.
I understand your educational major is a historical study of your heritage.
I don't know whether you would consider this history or just an unfortunate incident due to the times and mood of "our", you and I, country at the time.
When my Dad (white) stepped of a C-130 in San Diego in 1970, he was spat on, called a baby killer, had eggs thrown at him while he limped through the airport due to the amount of shrapnel embedded in his legs carrying the Purple Heart he had just received on the runway while serving in SouthEast Asia.
When he passed the guanlet of U.S. Citizens of all colors and backgrounds, he had 10 of his comrades with him of all backgrounds and colors and heritage, rich and poor.
I could go on about how long he had to endure such treatment, but I just wanted to try to put your incident in perspective and hope you can continue your outstanding website.
Thank You
Anonymous - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - link
#227"..take the example of iraq atack even though there were no weapons of mass distructions present which was quiet clearly stated by the UN but still a person attacks another country just for the sake of revenge to his family"
You conveniently forget that Saddam was a brutal dictator who killed hundreds of thousands of Shias and Kurds. Opps.....sorry I forgot, he is a Sunni Arab, therefore he has the license to kill. In fact Allah would reward him for his efforts with his own harem, after we hang him!
Anonymous - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - link
#227This is a good enough forum with ‘mainstream’ audience to expose Islam for what it really is.
You quote. “He who has hurt one person has therefore hurt the entire human race"…give me a break! Such verses are so few and far between. Islam is all about intolerance.
“When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.” (Quran47.4).
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, And seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent (accept Islam) and establish regular prayers and practices regular charity then open the way for them; for God is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Quran 9:5)
“Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you.” (Quran-2:216)
“Make war upon such of those who believe not the Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth even if they are the people of the book (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya (tax) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” (Quran-9:29)
“….Allah promises you much booty (spoils of war) that you will capture from the defeated infidels….” (Quran - 48:20)
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them” (Quran-8:12)
I will take a pause from the Quran (I haven’t even starte with the Hadits yet!)
Judaism is as bad and as intolerant as Islam! Christianity is a shade better in that, Jesus doctrine breaks from the vicious circle of suppression, war, genocide etc. He preached a doctrine of peace, forgiveness and meekness. The apostles in the New Testament build on this. But then of course you had the crusades, but then you can, counter argue that the church of a time was more of a political entity, than a religious one. Any way the crusades were in accordance with the teachings of the Old Testament, but directly contradict the teaching of Jesus an his apostles. But not so with Jihad; jihad is based directly on the teaching of the Quran and the Hadits, and matches the life and deeds of old Mo’.
Just look around and you will see several mullahs in mainstream mosques teaching and justifying jihad and Islamic fundamentalism. One cannot imagine a Rabbi or a Pastor of a mainstream synagogue or church today, instructing young boys to wage war on their nation till all non-Jews or nor-Christians are subjugated; they would be defrocked.
But such instructions are a way of life in mainstream Quranic schools around the Muslim world today; I myself received such indoctrination in the Quranic School run by my local Mosque. It is funny how people like Mohammad Zeeshan and the media try to portray Islamic fundamentalism to be coming from the lunatic fringe of the Muslim faith. If the lunatic standing in the back of the mosque were practicing this, then this argument holds ground. But when the Imam in the front of the mosque shouts this, then there is a crisis in the Muslim faith.
Dan - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - link
How do you get 228 normally rational and technically interested people to become irrational and racist, not to mention completely psychotic? Create an article involving race, and then leave an open forum to comment on.C'mon people, give it a rest already.
Anonymous - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - link
I really don't care what faith the person I face follows, nor do I care what caste/race he belongs to. As long as he is a sensible person meaning good to those around him, it makes everyone's day.However, there are people like #194 above who truly bring us down. I have hardly seen people condemning their blood and their land because it does not offer them _material_ comforts. I can understand the plight of refugees who don't want to go back to their land because of the oppression that they would have to face. But this, I cannot understand.
And this is precisely what I think Anand intended to say - that he _belongs_ to the USA, that he is a _citizen_ of the USA, that religion has _nothing_ to do with what he wanted to say, the message he wanted to share with all of us.
So for God's sake, please stop slander and abuse here. What's happened in the past has happened. Do we really care about how old Mohammed's wife was or how old Mary was when she was impregnated? Do you think about religion based on who perpetrated the rules and what _they_ did? Shouldn't you rather evaluate the so-called rulebook objectively and see what _you_ like? Forget religion for humanity's sake and concentrate on what Anand wanted to convey and what you can do to prevent things like the one that Anand had to face. Treat everyone as your equal. Love a living being irrespective of its species, sub-species, appearance and what have you. It's then and only then will we be fortunate enough not to see an account of a single person's travails degenerate into a ~150 messages long war of hatred and disrespect.
NesuD - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - link
Well Anand just as there are fools from the middle east who in the name of their religion murder and maim innocents there are also fools here in america who based on a physical perception choose to prejudge those who appear different from themselves. Fortunately they are a very small minority and in no way should be construed as anything remotely akin to mainstream. In a perfect world 9-11 would never have happened and the drunken idiot you crossed paths with would have not made such a foolish statement but this is not a perfect world and like it or not we must live in it. Do not let it change your attitudes to your fellow americans. This country was built by men who took the high road and held themselves to a higher standard. Be like them as that is what the spirit of being an american is to strive to emulate and exceed those who have come before.Mohammad Zeeshan - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - link
to #196 and othersthis i belive is not a good place to argue over believes and i hope the only good thing v can do for the time being is address the holy statures of the other religions with some respect just like u respect the ones in your religion and try avoiding irritating and unjustified words for anything v donot have the full knowledge aboutb/c atleast this is what i always do..Anands point remains the same that ppl have this really idiotic thinking that anything bad happening to them is to be cursed to the whole caste or religion in the entire world and not merely the stupid a--holes doing it who themselves do not have the correct practices...i condemn each and everything bad event going through the world in which innocents r being hurt as the biggest sin (simply a bad thing) this is as evient in the holy Quran .."he who has hurt one person has therefore hurt the entire human race" so plz tell me could there be any possibility of those damn alqayedas or anyother group practicing islam no they r not, the only thing they do is bring disgrace to others....i have no doubt that with all the differences in the religions no religion in the world can offer any teachings which are trouble to other human beings...in the end every religion has its faith so go along take pride in it but at the same time plz learn to respect others religion as well...this world is a mess and it is not a hidden truth that the big powers around the world also contribute to the scandiling of the ones they hate and compete the most so its all added up to some stupid idiots like osama who actually r fanatics plus the policies of the so called competing world to lame up the entire compititors.I live in NY and i take pride in a lot of things USA has to offer but at times i do feel that once in a while the policies r not very convincing and v could have avoided alot of peace disruption thru our own hands take the example of iraq atack even though there were no weapons of mass distructions present which was quiet clearly stated by the UN but still a person attacks another country just for the sake of revenge to his family
Mo' likes little girls - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - link
#218I appreciate the enligthening information regarding the laws of yore that allowed pedophilia. I also know that you are only defending your religion and the man (good ole Mo') who started it. Different cultures consider maturity differently. Some believed that once a girl had her period she became of age (obviously thinking reproduction)while others associated a specific age with maturity. Many times this was due to life expentancy in a culture as it is today in third world country where people don't live beyond their mid 20's.
I am less concerned about the ridiculous laws that permitted (or still permit) pedohiplia as I am with a man who created a religion based on misinformation and his own meandering. Heck, if we want to talk about stupid laws, you can't buy milk on Sunday's in some parts of Texas. Is that stupid or what?
I understand culture has a lot to do with the age of marriage but lets face it, many muslims put particular emphasis on their supposed heavenly gifts. To die as a martyr and inherit your own personal brothel? When I die sex is the last thing I want to think about in the after life. I would hope there would be more to look forward to then screwing a bunch of virgins. Sure, it sounds like fun but c'mon we are of flesh to serve a purpose and flesh serves a purpose thus allowing reproduction. Are we to think that we would progress into a spritual life where our desires and needs are based on pleasures of the flesh? Twisted logic here.
I don't agree with many people who place the blame for all terrorism at the hand of Mulims. Take for example the so called *extreme* Christians who kill Doctor's who perform abortions or blow up the clinics. However, this pales in comparison to the HUGE increase in Muslim terrorism. Not one muslim leader or country condemned what happened in Russia. They see their violent cause as righteous and that's the saddest part.
brandoN - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - link
192: "America ... This is THE MOST TOLERANT nation in the world, the most perfect society, the only "proposition nation" - one built not on ties of blood, but on ideological ones. It's tragic that you don't see this."Sorry but every nation has blood involved. You're saying that America's most violent war (their American Civil War) proves that the country hasn't shed their own blood to make it happen?
Secondly, I agree America is rather tolerant compared to most nations, but it seems you're forgetting about Canada or most of Europe. Canada at the last is far more tolerant than the USA. Toronto, the largest city, is 50% ethnic! And no, that's not a bad thing :)
Calpchen - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
Obviously, the American thing to do would have been to grab that guy by his collar and punch him in the face. That's how we take care of things. That's the American way.Anonymous - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
#194: You don't deserved to be call an Indian. I am an Indian and I am living in the US, but that doesn't mean I hate my home country.It's ignorant people like you who can't seem to find good in other countries. Ever wondered why so many US companies are outsourcing to India? I am sure they wouldn't have outsourced to India if it was hell. India produces some of the smartest people in the world.
Just because a country is 3rd world country doesn't make it hell. Just because you are so used to living a in AC and driving AC cars at age 16 doesn't make India hell.
Sure, if you are uneducated you are not going anywhere in India. However, in US you can still be a millionaire even if you have graduated from high school.
What I am trying to say is if you haven't experienced India, don't go criticizing anything. I hope you realize that people will still discriminate against you even if you love US so much.
Basically, you hate India and Americans hate you, so to speak. You are stuck in the middle and no place to go.
I feel sorry for you buddy.
Anonymous - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
“It makes me wonder why Muslims like Anand….”Sorry I would like to correct my above post to “ …People of Muslim origin like Anand…”
Thanks,
Anonymous - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
Did you read the article in this week’s edition of Time about the plight of Christians in Iraq? Take into account the treatment of Christians and Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh, The murder of Christians and burning of churches in Indonesia and Nigeria, or the murder of Christians by the FIS Islamic terrorists in Algeria, or the treatment of the Copts in Egypt, massacre of Hindu pundits in Kashmir, the status of Christians in Syria or the fact that Parsees had to flee Iran to come to India, People are not allowed to practice or propagate other faiths in the Gulf states etc. You find that Intolerance is the rule not the exception in the Muslim world.It makes me wonder why Muslims like Anand should make such a big deal about the comments of a drunk. You Muslims are getting a free ride here compared to what you dish out to non-Muslims in your area of the world.
Anonymous - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
By whatever standards you judge the age of consent, a 9 year old girl is simply not ready for sexual relationship. The need for education is not the primary reason for increasing the age of consent. It is because the psychological devastation such liaisons cause is now well documented in the medical world. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MODERN MEDICINE, THAT SEXUAL EXPLOITATION OF PREADOLESCENT GIRLS HAS A DEVASTATING IMPACT ON THEIR PSYCHE. If old Mo’ did not know this then he is no visionary (His theory of conception is not only ludicrous and unscientific but is so comical that it could find its way into MAD magazine; I suggest you should read that theory, it makes a good laugh).A prophet is supposed be a visionary. I am an atheist, but I do respect the teachings of Jesus and the Buddha because; Jesus preached forgiveness in a society where “a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye” was the order of the day. The Buddha taught equality and respect for all living beings in a cast based society. This is what I call visionary.
But a preacher who took full advantage of an age were minor girls were exploited, to hump around with a 9 year old child is no visionary, but rather a pervert, or more accurately just another cult leader who stole Ideas from Judaism and Christianity, to have his shot at power.
I have read the Torah, the Bible, the Koran and the Buddhist and Hindu scriptures from page to page. Only in the Koran (through the glorification of the life of old Mo’) is pedophilia encouraged. Your statement of the age of Mary at the time of the birth of Jesus is purely based on the Jewish tradition of the time. But there is no SHREAD of evidence as to the actual age of Mary at that time; one could make the argument that Mary married a bit later (this was not uncommon at the time). Also if you consider the Jewish tradition of the time Joseph would more likely have been a young man (remember polygamy was not very common at that age). Any way enough of this hocus pocus story of Mary and Joseph. The bottom like is your statement on the age of Mary is based on assumption, but the age of the girl raped by old Mo’ is “written in stone”.
The life and deeds of Jesus and the Buddha, will measure up to the yardstick of any age; past , present and future. But that of old Mo’ falls short of modern standards (I am not taking into account of old Mo’ as a mass murderer). This ability to measure up to time is why Christianity and Buddhism are able to move on with time, but Islam is stuck in the middle ages.
Elindur - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
Especially to #176 PLEASE READThe age of sexual consent is still quite low in many places. In Japan, people can legally have sex at age 13, and in Spain they can legally have sex at age 12. (This data comes from the Age of Consent chart, which you can see at: http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)
The Prophet's contemporaries (both enemies and friends) clearly accepted the Prophet's marriage to `Aisha without any problem. We see the evidence for this by the lack of criticism against the marriage until modern times. However, a change in culture caused the change in our times today.
A 40-year-old man having sex with a 14-year-old woman may be a "pedophile" in the USA today, but not in China today (where the age of consent is 14), nor in the USA last century. Biology is a much better standard by which to determine these things in my view, not the arbitrariness of human culture.
***** In the USA last century, the age of consent was 10 years old. California was the first state to change the age of consent to 14, which it did in 1889. After California, other US states joined in and raised the age of consent too. (Source: http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numberone.htm...
As for the reasons why we age of consent just seems to get higher and higher, Essentially, we need more education just to survive in today's society, and this takes much more time. This additional education we need to function in today's society seems to me to be the main cause of the increase in the age of consent in many 20th century societies. The Common Law age of consent was 10. The French penal code raised the age from 11 to 13 only a century ago. In England, it was only in 1929 (70 years ago) that the ancient Christian minimum age for the marriage of females, which was 12, was abandoned. The early rock and roll singer Jerry Lee Lewis was considerably older than his 13 cousin whom he married in all legality in Arkansas. Since then, the age there has been raised to 16. That marriage lasted for about 15 years and there was never any other "scandal" associated with Jerry Lee Lewis. The story is quite different, however, for his cousin Jimmy Swaggart (the well-known and disgraced tele-evangelist) who married a woman his own age but later publicly confessed that he was an adulterer and a whoremonger.
In the seventh century, 3 year old girls were burned to death or tortured in Europe for copulating with demons, witches and sorcerers. Strong sexual passions were attributed to the youngest children. Even Jean Bodin, one of the greatest legal authorities of his time, said that the appropriate age of consent for a female was 6. (I do not mean to suggest that 3 year olds did in fact have sexual relations with demons. It is however interesting to see that at that time it was publicly believed that child-adult relations were the fault of seductive children who sought out mature men rather than today's popular belief that it is instead pedophiliac adults who prey on innocent, unsuspecting children.)
In the US (an example of a prominent western country, since the west had the greatest effect on the world in the last couple of centuries.) They considered a seven year old female competent on making decisions regarding sex, though it was raised later on (in 1886, after attempts to raise the age of consent, Delaware was the only state to retain the common law age of seven, while twenty five states set the minimum age at a mere ten.) In older times, children were not perceived in the same sense that we perceive them, but the perception was changed gradually, which is due to a great extent to industrialization, and of course sigmund freud and others came along with their theories and supported these changes in social thinking (the word adolescent itself was introduced as recently as 1904.)
Not only was it a custom in the Arab society to Engage/Marry a young girl it was also common in the Jewish society. The case of Mary the mother of Jesus comes to mind, in non biblical sources she was between 11-14 years old when she conceived Jesus. Mary had already been "BETHROED" to Joseph before conceiving Jesus. Joseph was a much older man. therefore Mary was younger than 11-14 years of age when she was "BETHROED" to Joseph. We Muslims would never call Joseph a Child Molester, nor would we refer to the "Holy Ghost" of the Bible, that "Impregnated" Mary as a "Rapist" or "Adulterer".
This paragraph was sent to me by brother Mike, who embraced Islam recently; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him: According to the Priest of Saint Mary's Catholic Church: "Mary was approximately 14 years old when she got pregnant with Jesus. Joseph, Mary's Husband is believed to be around 36. Mary was only 13 when she married Joseph. When she first was arranged with Joseph she was between 7 to 9 years old."
According to the "Oxford Dictionary Bible" commentary, Mary (peace be upon her) was was 12 years old when she became impregnated.
So if I want to be as silly and ridiculous as many of the Christians, I would respond to them by saying that Mary was psychologically and emotionally devastated for getting pregnant at a very young age. And speaking of "child molesting", since most Christians believe that Jesus is the Creator of this universe, then why did GOD allow himself to enter life through a 12-year old young girl's vagina? Please note that we Muslims love and respect Allah Almighty, Mary, Jesus and Allah's Message to the People of the Book (The Jews and Christians). In other words, we Muslims would never make fun of Christianity through such childish topic like this one as many ridiculous Christians do make fun of Islam through our Prophet's (peace be upon him) marriage.
Now here is the part for jewish culture...
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/guido_deime...
A girl must be 12 years old for marriage, but a 3-year old may be betrothed with the father's approval. As for the permissibility of marriage to a minor (katanah) by coition...*Fuggedaboudit!!* as they say in the Mafia. My friend assures me that *humanitarian treatment* is the final authority. If a man did that, that is, had intercourse with a minor for purposes of marriage,it would be considered a crime, even if the father approved. A girl that young would be considered unable to make a momentous decision like that. And even if she were older than 12, if it were done by force, as if she were a Moabite captive, they would be made to divorce once the circumstances were known.
Furthermore, and very importantly, the Jews are *required* to observe the "deen hammalchut"...the laws of the country in which they reside, before applying their own halacha, or laws. So the short answer is, yes, marriage by coition is considered legal, but not with a katanah, and never by force. Betrothal to a katanah is OK, but the bride must reach puberty before actual marriage and consummation. Also, according to my own exceedingly imperfect knowledge, nowhere in the Talmud is betrothal to a minor by intercourse *recommended*. If all this were permissible in the days of the Mishna, well, those days are gone."
maxavier - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
#215, is an orrection like an errection but w/ your mouth? (sry I couldn't resist)Back on subject, next time you should get all melting pot up in that guys face and then kick him in the kidney. You get your deserved revenge on the the dude, and well, another drunk guy would get owned for being a retard. Win-win situation.
Anonymous - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
Why don’t Muslims Condemn terrorism? Not even one Muslim leader has come forward and condemned the Russian school massacre. A few of them grudgingly condemned the 911 attacks, but only after it was pointed out in the press that they had not done so.Anonymous - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
orrection; #206 & #212Disgusting creeps. Arseholes like you give Muslims a bad name.
Martin - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
You are wrong when you write that people from Iran would not dislike Americans. In fact they (and all other people from the Mid-East) hate America(ns) for its steady support of Israel. If not half of the USA government was Jewish, that would be better for the USA, as they could stop then support for Israel.Perhaps not all Muslim people are potential terrorists. I noticed that there is much sympathy for the terrorist attacks, though. Muslim people hate Christian, Jews, and the Western life-style (the American way of life).
As far as I know, the D.C. sniper was also an Muslim.
All terrorists are Muslims!!!
Think about it.
Anonymous - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
#216 & #212Disgusting creeps. Arseholes like you give Muslims a bad name.
Anonymous - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - link
Infidels, Islam is the ONLY way to Paradise. Islam is the ONLY way to good governance and Peace.dre - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
To Anand and to all,I attribute the cause of the world's senseless acts of hate, disrespect, and spite to the human tedency to want to see things in "black and white." It is easier to make certain choices or to form beliefs when you do not know (or choose to not know) more about the involved subjects. As an example, if one believed everything on TV or on the Internet, he/she would believe that all SUVs are evil and have no beneficial uses at all; they would believe all Microsoft products are worthless. People often do not to take the time to evaluate their beliefs or more importantly, why they have the beliefs they do. I believe it is this laziness and apathy that has caused much of the strife in human history.
On the other hand, I do not believe it is necessarily true that if you become more educated or understand the origins of your own beliefs that your discontentment with others will go away. Facts and figures can only do so much--the innate spirit of a person will determine his/her relationships with the world around them.
That said, I believe Anand's encounter is no different in cause than the conflicts during the Civil Rights movement, the conflicts during the reign of Adolph Hitler, the conflicts involving sexual preferences, conflicts of religion, and conflicts of other kinds. Some conflicts in the world are started by those in power who know too well that a common enemy brings people together. What better way is there to do that than to play off people's ignorance and lack of motivation to "dig deeeper"?
The sad thing about all of this is that people measure "success" in terms of "hurdles." They think, "ok, we got over this problem! We have learned our lesson!" Years pass and the same thing happens again, but it happens in a different form. Then they say, "Ok, we've conquored this problem AND the last problem! That means we are strong!" Well, not quite. They really tried to solve the same problems twice! Those problems are really the SYMPTOMS of a bigger problem--they are NOT the cause. If you can fight the CAUSE of the problems, you will have no hurdles to jump over!
As long has humans live in America (or any other country for that matter) there will always be blind hate, disrepect, and spite in all different shapes in forms. That is human nature to a point. But until people stop, think, and realize that it is not everyone else who needs to change but it is "I" who needs to change, we are just going to keep patting ourselves on the back until the next atrocity.
-dre
Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
to post #209 Brian....Ugh are you being sarcastic and fasicious here or what man? C'mon lets just all try to get along..'don't worry and be happy'.Brian - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
Anand,Let me also say that I am your biggest fan. No one writes a technical article/review like you do...NOBODY. I would love to watch you and participate in your follow up RAID article. To be apart of something like that would truly bring meaning to my life.
Is it too late to be in your wedding? Perhaps I can be the DJ or pick up any poodle turds outside the building. I'm yours to command. Did I mention that I am a good person too? You got a friend in ME man!
Your friend,
Brian
Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
Anand,You got a friend in me man, there are hateful people in this world but there's also many good people too and I'm one of em.
Congrats on the wedding
brian
Youdon'tknowcrap - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
194 - Posted on Sep 24, 2004 at 1:29 PM by brownguy////You need to spend some time in that 3rd world hellhole they call India to see what makes the USA so special. If you like it there, well, good riddance :) :)///////
I live like a King in the so called hellhole. So please STFU!
Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
Infidel dogs. Islam will rule the world.Forum of hate - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
Anand, do please lock this forum. It is spreading hate throughout the world. Oh the travesty, oh the pain.We need to call the Care Bears to help heal this aching land of all this hate once and for all. Oh the humanity.
Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
I for one think this debate is good. It lets us know of all the pain and hate going through both sides of the world.It also shows how little we know of each other.
Ano - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
194 - Posted on Sep 24, 2004 at 1:29 PM by brownguy////You need to spend some time in that 3rd world hellhole they call India to see what makes the USA so special. If you like it there, well, good riddance :) :)///////
Ok whiteguy!
Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
Anand please lock this thread. It is becoming a forum of hate.I love this site - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
Please be considerate and understanding about this issue.#197 Anand is probably from a muslim family and though he might not be muslim he probably has nothing to do with pork let alone would want to "pork his wife". Perhaps saying "make sweet beautiful love" would be more applicable considering Anand's grandeur about the whole wedding thing.
#192 I'm sorry but Islam is the bastard religion of Judaism. Don't believe me? Read the Quran/Koran and compare it to the Talmud and Torah. The only difference is good ole Mo' couldn't bare to think that the Jews were the "chosen people" (rightly so) so he concocted a religion where Jews and Christians were all wrong, Jesus didn't get crucified (contrary to what even secular historians living at the time account) and Abraham was prepared to sacrifice Ismael (supposed Father of the Arab people) instead of Isaac.
I don't care if you're religious or if you aren't but if the Torah and the story of Abraham first came into existence (at least) 2,000yrs prior to good ole Mo's story in 800AD, I'd go with the former for authenticity when it comes to religious mumbo jumbo. Then again, we can put it all aside, get wasted and go looking for "Osama's brother".
Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
Hi Anand, Congratulations on your wedding. I've had the same thing that has happened to you happen to me many times. I'm what my parents would call an ABCD (American-born confused desi - indian). My parents are from India and ive gone there every year since i was 3, and I love it there. In fact, instead of hating Americans they tend to look at Americans as high than their own citizens.I believe it is the arrogance and ignorance of most Americans that is the root of these problems because they simply listen to the media like zombies, and dont create their own opinions
Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
#192 Mohammad Zeeshan“…..will find peace and lose this irritation and anger towards muslims and islam.”
If you read my posts #165, #177 & #181, you will see that while I explain that root of Islamic terrorism, I do not show any anger or irritation towards Muslims. The rest of the world may not know it, but Muslims are the biggest victims of Islamic terrorism.
Tod - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
AMEN...Not an American.
who cares - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
Anand,Congrats on your wedding. You know I really care and in some way hope that my words of encouragement will someone lift me above the other geeks by creating some association to you. I can't sleep at night knowing this kind of stuff goes on in the world. I mean, your feelings were hurt and that's horrible. Heaven forbid you dwell on this for the rest of your life. You live in the melting pot of racism. We all seem to tolerate each other for face value.
Things could be better, say in France for instance.
Or you can live with all the pain like #184 does because he's just "another nigger". Please! If that's how you view yourself or perceive how others view you what's the point of getting out of bed in the morning? Especially if you've done that much service for this country.
Familiarity breeds contempt. Become familiar with the self-loathing of hate and idiocy and you will become just that.
You had a bad day. Go home and pork your wife.
Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
#192I want to inform you that I used to be a follower of Islam. I was born into a Muslim family. The imam of my mosque indoctrinated me in Islam. I can recite the Koran from memory. My indoctrination taught me to hate everything non-Muslim. I was taught to wage jihad until the Hindu kafirs were subjugated. My imam now sits in a south Indian jail for instigating the bombing of a railway station in which, several innocent men, women and children were killed. Some of my classmates who swallowed what was fed to them are now dead, tracked down and killed in shootouts with the cops, or are rotting in jail for their crimes of terrorism.
If I was not a free thinker, a skeptic, a believer in science, evolution and common sense, I would either be dead (by the way believing I will be humping around in paradise with the virgins Allah would provide), or I would be rotting my sorry ass in jail for the crime of terrorism. I am thankful to my common sense to have walked out of that group.
I know more about Islam than you will ever know. I have since denounced that medieval faith, and am its critic. I am currently writing a book explaining the role of Islam in the spread of terrorism, past and present. It will explain the unscientific ludicrousness of the religion. The CORRECT you want me to follow is political correctness which prevents the criticism of Islam for its role in world terrorism.
By the way my buddies who ended up as Islamic terrorists, were sweet nice lads till they took the wahabi bait. They were not poor. They are from what you might consider affluent families. And finally, I would like to add that because I renouncing Islam, my Father, cousins and Muslim threatened to kill me if I did not come back to it(Islam); I do not blame them, nor bear a grudge against them, after all they are only practicing their faith.
If you want a debate, I would be happy to indulge you. I have seen the cancer from within.
indus - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
Anand, you are NOT an american. you are an Indian. It does not matter how much you achieve and contribute in this country. Indians will always be second class citizens.brownguy - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
Damn !! Anand, this is pretty disappointing. No, I'm not talking about the "racist" incident, but about your reaction to it. I'm also an Indian, but love the US. And no, a little untoward incident like this would do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to shake either my faith or my love for America, Americans, and our institutions. This is THE MOST TOLERANT nation in the world, the most perfect society, the only "proposition nation" - one built not on ties of blood, but on ideological ones. It's tragic that you don't see this. You need to spend some time in that 3rd world hellhole they call India to see what makes the USA so special. If you like it there, well, good riddance :) :)Mohammad Zeeshan - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
* he is a disgrace to mankind and not to all americans....just wanted to clearup the grammer b/c i donot want another "misunderstanding".. lolMohammad Zeeshan - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
hey anand many congrates on the wedding, boy it was lenghty going thorugh the 183 posts most of them making me think over and over on each one of them to conclude the one word of "misunderstanding" common in most of 'em..for #181 plz take a chill pill dont get too edgy and aggitated and take my sincere advice of going and attending a single lecture or to hell with the lecture study the translation of Quran yourself and read the history, you will get all the CORRECT answers u have asked b/c believe me those facts are the inverse of the teaching of Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) have been though it was what was been practiced before his advent, take my word plz plz read one page of quarn a day and u will get the best possible answers it is upto u then to admit or regect them b/c its impossible how much the other person keeps arguing u , u wont admit a fact unless and untill u yourself go and take the pain of researching the correct facts and not the bogus ones spread around the web by iggnorants believe me brother u will find peace and lose this irritation and anger towards muslims and islam....none the less 9/11 was a great tragedy and anand it was a tragedy for u to confront an idiot a total waste on earth to say such a stupid thing, he is a disgrace to mankind not all americans.Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
funny. i read through to see what people posted and it seems hate is a common theme. wonder why that is. political hate, racial hate, religious hate.how does putting down a political candidate or a religion or a race help anyone?
Anand don't let it get you down, there is still positive people in the world and even in the United States who would not have done what that guy did even if they were drunk.
peace.
Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
#186Well said!
Tom Knowles - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
Anand,I was born in Australia of an Australian Mom and American Dad. I retired from the US navy and yes, I served my country during trhe Viet Nam war. I ama white man.
So, let's cut to the chase: The Repubs hate anyone who is not a white Anglo Saxon Potestant and hate those who are not rich. Evidence: They round up of non white (mulsim and Muslim looking men) after 9/11, keep them in jail and abuse them. I won't even touch on IRAQ: I am and was opposed to the Iraq war but support our servicemen and women 1000%. They refuse to let Cuban Americans visit Cuba to see their relatives (Bush put this policy in effect 7/11/2004). How any patriotic Ameican can vote for the Al QuAeda sympathetic Bushies is beyond me: Remember the Bush family has been involved in the oil of Saudi Arabia for generations. We know the Sauddis support Al Qaeda with actions and petro dollars.
The Bushies are hiding the following: The draft will be instituted after the November 2 if Bush is elected. Hello Depression! Travel via air recently?- well now the TSA wants all your personal information. Wonder why the major airlines are hurting_US Airways, United (sorry Cat stevens), Delta, ...? Bush is NO GOOD for the USA and the world.
Ed
Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
#187Oh yeah?, You think you are better off? Give us a break Arsehole!
Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
ignorance is bliss for most of you.Anonymous - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
I am an Indian. If you were to see me, you could not tell me apart from any other of my countrymen. I have the same skin color same eyes and hair as any other Indian. But through out my life I have been discriminated against. The reason is that I am from what is considered to be the lowest cast in the cast hierarchy.Racism is not all about color of the skin. The discrimination the low cast Hindus are subjected to in rural India makes racism in the US look trivial. Discrimination against non Muslims in Pakistan is institutionalized by their constitution with bills like the anti blasphemy law etc. Until recently Hindus in Pakistan were not allowed to vote (I am not sure if Musharaf granted them the rights yet, I think he has). The Bush men in southern Africa are treated disgracefully by their fellow black men just because they are considered “Primitive”. The treatment of women in the Muslim world etc.
Crude discrimination like the one Anand experienced is all about a group of looser’s clinging to some vestige of perceived “Superiority” in their otherwise pathetic life.
The other type of discrimination which apparently Anand did face is the more painful type. The one where people are denied jobs or promotions which they deserve due to prejudice.
Discrimination really hurts. But whining about it only makes the victory of the Prejudiced complete. One must try to raise beyond this. Take the example of people like Nelson Mandela, Colin Powel, Oprah Winfrey, K.R.Narayanan,(an Indian president from the lowest cast in the cast hierarchy), Ambedkar (the man who wrote the Indian constitution). People who rose despite all odds and beyond discrimination; you cant imagine any one yelling racial slurs at them today.
Of course most of us will never be another Oprah or Mandela, but we can do our bit to prove to the world that we too are equal. Things will hurt, but at least we can build a better life for our children. I draw hope for the future by studying the women’s liberation in the west. Western women fought prejudice to build an equal platform for themselves in the world. Though things are still not yet 100% perfect for them, things are on the right track, improving all the time.
Anand stop whining, do your bit to prove to the prejudiced (who by the way know deep down) that you are every way as good as them, if not better. There will definitely be pain and hurt along the way, but raise above it and build a better future for your children.
Brian - Friday, September 24, 2004 - link
jimmyi68,As a white guy I can tell you we have our share of jerks that do look only at skin color. I wish it were not so, but it is and all I can say is the majority of us try to shun those guys.
Your work and contributions should speak for themselves. But don't make the mistake of thinking only a white person can be as you speak.
There needs to be good folks with respect in their community, that stand up and let people of any (all) color know that using the word nigger, OSB or any other racist words is unacceptable and simply inappropriate. That should include the white guy(s) you most certainly refer too in your comment, Anands’ white guy and yes the brothers who likes to say “he’s my nigger” or “he’s a cracker”.
Obviously not using that kind of language will not stop these people from being what they choose, but it will not inflict the kind of pain you and Anand have experienced.
If no one else has said it Jimmy, thanks for your contributions throughout your working career, enjoy retirement.
Regards.
jimmyj68 - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
After slogging through 183 posts I have found no understanding for what Anand was trying to say. He was trying to describe the pain of being disavowed. I use that word as a clumsy attempt to have you understand what happens when your existence - your being - your self esteem is assualted. Here is a man in the very elysian joys of being a newly wed. Reveling in the glow of who he is and the love of a woman who loves him for who he is. When a "white" person attacks all of that simply because he is darker complected with straight black hair and middle eastern features. Can you understand how that would strike at your very soul? The perpetrator, be he drunk or sober has struck a mortal blow to the spirit. Can you understand how that feels?I did all of the "American" things. I served 20 years and 21 days in the USAF. I retired, went to college and earned a BS and MA degrees. I then worked another 19 years and 5 months for the Department of Defense as a civilian. Now, retired again and 68 years old, I'm still subjected to that pain that Anand felt. Despite all the "American" things I have done with my life - just because of the color of my skin - I am just another "nigger" to some "white" people. Trust me people. That hurts.
Anand - never give up or give in to those who would destroy your personhood. Know - the pain will never go away. I have 68 years sprinkled with that pain.
Jason - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
That drunk guy was an idiot. It is too bad that morons like that guy have the power to effect honest citizens such as yourself. Only an idiot would target a whole group of people as retaliation for 9/11. I think that it is sad that these coward terrorists that kill innocent people use religion to justify their hate, but this is not new. Christians and Jews are not any better. Their history is full of vile and horrible things done in the name of religion. Religion is not to blame, the people commiting the crimes are. Fortunately, for the most part, European christianity moved past that behavior when it left the middle ages. Many Middle Eastern countries are still in a middle ages of sorts. They need a renaissance of their own.There have been a lot of people on here bashing America. America does more for other countries and other people than any other country in the world. We give more foreign aid to other countries than all other countries in the world combined. We accept more foreign immigrants than any other country. We have millions of people of middle eastern descent living in our country that left their countries to seek a better life. They came to America because no other country would give them the opportunity that America would. Those from foreign countries that are bashing America have no idea what living in America is like. I lived in a third world country where people have nothing, and things such as shelter and food are a daily concern. Very few people in America have that concern. America has its problems but it has far less than most of the world. Those in the middle east that see our culture and hate America are jealous that their countries are not as strong or powerful or rich as America. Their governments are corrupt and live off their citizens. Instead of using their time to build up their own people they want to drag America down with them.
Anonymous - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
Sorry for the typo error, I meant, EDUCATE YOURSELF DUDE!Anonymous - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
#180I am not spreading hate. I am pointing out the root of Islamic hate.
I want a straight answer from “enlightened” people like you; Can you deny the fact that the “Prophet” Mohammed slept with a 9 year old child? Can you deny that he did not commit mass murder? Or he had his opponents assassinated?
If we have to get down to it, I could quote from the Koran and other Islamic scriptures to prove my point. I can point out the source of Islamic terrorism right to the teachings of Islam i.e. the Wahabi doctrine.
Let us see who is the ignorant? You are living in a delusion that OBL does not derive his inspiration from Islam. EDUCATCE YOURSELF DUDE.
Haroon Saleem - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
#165 & #177. Seriously I don't have the time to educate ignorant people like yourself. It is pointless to post anything in this forum beacuse obvously it makes no difference. All It does is make me think less of all these people mud slinging at each other. It is people like 165 and 177 that spread hate and anger and ignorance. Grow up, this is not a pissing contest!Sam - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
Anand, you are more American than that moron will ever be.White Georgia Redneck Out
Anonymous - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
Are you aware that no Muslim leader condemned the recent terrorist incident in Russia, where over 300 innocent children were brutally murdered? This indicates the tactical approval many Muslims harbor of these terrorist incidents. After all leaders reflect public opinion.Anonymous - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
# 97An impartial analysis of the life of the "Prophet" Mohammed, the founder of Islam, indicates that he is nothing but a terrorist; the forerunner of all the Islamic terrorists scurrying around nowadays.
Anonymous - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
Heard of a religion designed by a pervert who rapes a 9 year old girl? Married an older woman for her money, or slit the throats of several hundred Jews, who would have nothing to do with his new religion? A man who had his critics assassinated?Do you think this religion will catch on? Well, it has.....it is called Islam! The pervert who founded it is called "Prophet" Mohammed!
Angry - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
Next time you go to Iran ask a local what they think of Jews. Then you will see hate. Ask them if they ever met one? Ask them how they know to hate them? Normal life? Different customs? Ask someone over there to condem some of the things done in the name of Islam and see what happens. Read some of the text books about history. See what you think about it then.Islam takes the greatest gift we got, "free will" and shuts the door on it. It easy to become a Muslim (they teach you the Quran AFTER you convert) but they have the right to murder you if you change your mind and want to leave. Enlightened yet?
Anonymous - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
#171You are a complete Idiot. You display your Ignorance of history.
“I call on Sikhs, Muslims and Hindus to unite only than can we be a powerful force”.
Do you know what happened to the Sikhs under Muslim rule? Ever heard of the martyrdom of the Sikh Guru? Ever heard of the destruction of Hindu temples and suppression of Hindus by Muslim rulers or Muslim Invaders? Do the names Aurangazeb, Mohammed Gawri etc ring a bell? Are you aware of the millions of Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs massacred during the communal violence that followed the partitioning of India (A genocide that makes the Nazi holocaust pale in comparison) ? Are you aware of the hundreds of Sikh’s killed in the riots that followed the death of Indira Ghandi? Or the thousands of Hindu Pundits killed by Muslims in Kashmir? Heard of the Gujarat riots?
Clean up your own house, right the wrongs you have done to each other, then you may consider the wrongs done by others
Cathy - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - link
#171Your the exact kind of bonehead that feeds anger. Worst part is, you are so simple as to think "the West" or "White males" are to blame for
for the "death and horror around the world".
Seems most countries were hard at that long before our 200 year old country had much international influence. Thats not to say the U.S. hasn't made mistakes and won't in the future, but you can count whatever luck stares you and your country have, that the U.S. is generally a non-aggressor nation.
And if you don't believe that, ask yourself what country or for that matter 5 countries of any region in the world could withstand a truely agressive and ruthless U.S.
I won't try to explain that no other country even comes close to giving as much money or capital goods to nations in trouble as the U.S. And I wouldn't try to explain to you that americans, including White-Western-Males, have no deficit in morals or heart as compared to someone as enlighted as yourself. Americans simply have fought for what they have and will not shy away from any SOB who thinks he can "take the power back".
I suggest you bring all your friend with all thier balls if you think you can!
Trog - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
Hey, at least I learned *something* from all this. I though Anand was of Indian decent. Come to find out he's Iranian decent. Not that it really matters, but it's good to know a little more about the wiz-kid that has been preaching the gospel of computer hardware for so many years! For what it's worth, Anand, I think you're a great guy and are more of an American than many of us. Hell, you're living the American Dream!On a side note, this is one more reason for the Qua-ram and Bible to condemn drunkeness. As bad as the whole 9/11 situation was, not to mention the US retaliation, more people are killed every year by drunk drivers than by both combined. If anyone actually reads this, please give up alcohol, or at the very least drink in moderation. Drinking to get drunk is dumber than buying software and hardware without doing any research - and that's pretty freaking dumb. :)
We love you Anand. Down with stupid people!!!
No - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
Bleh 168. White males have caused so much death and horror around the world. Go to almost any country brown, black, yellow. India, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq we have all been raped up the ass by colonialist, racialist oppressors. This is our common thread and it is something whites will never understand. To walk in your own cities as a human being with the rights of an animal. I have no pity for your people. Just look at America's history. Genocide followed by enslavement. Can't you respect or get along with any race?People say that was 50/100/200/whatever number of years ago but those scars remain. The amount of wealth taken out of these countries borders on ridiculous and their self-esteem has been ruined. Why are there white models on every billboard in Asia and Western companies raping for profits all over the world?
We have to take the power back. Sadly that is what the West has made this world. A war. I call on Sikhs, Muslims and Hindus to unite only than can we be a powerful force.
Especially Hindu's. We have no balls. Anand how did you take that crap from that redneck worm? I would have dropped his ass right there and then. If white liberals wish to join us, so be it. You are the only people with any morals or heart in Western society. It is time for a new world order where all are truely equal.
Josh - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
Anand, as a Indian myself I know exactly how you feel. Dude don't let that drunk mofo ruin your fun. You are a well respected and talented guy. Just brush the haters off. Good Luck bro.Ano - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
Can we please get a small violin playing for karna 168 here.
karna - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
hey anand-don't know if you're still reading this but wanted to say first I've been visiting your site since it was a little baby, attempting to break out and make a name for itself among the many. so far so good.
as for your experience, i can say that i have felt the same thing. no i am not muslim or even dark-skinned, but a white male.
i grew up in a strict vendanta hindu system, spending a number of years in india and learning most of the scriptures including the gita, bhagavatam, etc. Some of the teachings are indeed clearly anti-western, which has always been represented as focussing solely on the materialistic benefits rather than those that are spiritual. in a sense, i can see how certain muslim extremists would interpret their teachings as justification to do whatever is necessary to protect their culture and people from the influences of the west.
this extremism is the same ignorance, although in a different form, that you experienced. we as americans have the same responsibility to educate our people to tolerate and accept these foreign cultures and people that the people of muslim countries should have to educate their own about american people and cultures. it is obvious that failure exists on both sides.
i have experienced racism first-hand, just casually walking down a street downtown and having a bunch of "minority" young men loudly voice as I walked by their distaste for the white man. naturally i ignored their crap, but as with you, it made me think. it caused me to wonder next time their's a vote, am i going to vote to give minorities exceptions? but wait, who is the minority anyway? things have changed, and i think a lot of white folks are getting a little bit tired of having nothing to claim pride in.
just as 3dfx was once viewed as the powerhouse of the video card industry, the white man was seen as having been born with the silver spoon. no breaks were to be given and any laws that could be created to chip away at that percieved priviledge was gladly accepted as the politically-correct thing to do. however, this is no longer the case. in many areas, caucasians are no longer the majority yet they still have to deal with laws and regulations that are put into place solely to aid what was previously considered the minority groups.
its hard to find a bumper sticker that says "caucasian and proud!" or hear people go to a cultural event that displays with pride, historical cultural practices of the caucasian. these are just not things that "white people do". we go to events celebrating OTHER cultures, made of people wearing clothing from OTHER cultures, playing instruments and singing in OTHER languages, about the pride of history of ANOTHER country. I can go on.
The point is that there is a gap in culture when it comes to most caucasians and that gap is bound to be filled with something unfortunate if not attended to. I believe many ignorant caucasians like to mock and put down other race simply because they really dont have anything to take pride in. Surely there are cultures that come from individual european countries, but most caucasians are made of up at least 2 or 3 different sources so no one culture is THE culture.
This big white empty space needs to be filled with something that has substance and I dont really believe it has to be anything cultural or country-based. Its really all about education. If we can take the good and the valuable from each culture that is 'imported' into the US by its immigrants, then we will all share the benefits. But as long as individuals from other countries continue to huddle into their own little communal or cultural groups, and in doing so distancing themselves from the rest of us, there will be a lingering discomfort among the general white public in regards to just how American our current wave of immigrants really are.
Anonymous - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
"To Hameed Post#5"BTW Anand, when you said "My mom is a muslim" I assume your father isn't? How could they get married then?"
Hameed, the reason you people live in crap is because you think like that, but that's ok, soon all of you will be living in democracy or be dead.
Seriously dude, they went to fucking City Hall and
signed marriage papers, moved in together had a baby, thats how. You know, non-muslims are homosapince too."
If you know any piece of religion, you do know that in some religions it is forbidden to marry outside the religion. If you are a hard-lined jew, muslim, catholic or whatever, it is often impossible, from parents pressure or whatever, to marry anyone from a distant religion. The question Hameed asked was a question, not an insult, as you took it.
Not all countries have freedom of religion, but following your own religion isn't exactly illegal, as long as it doesn't break any other laws.
Trevoga - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
I've seen a lot of disturbing posts here. You guys are too sencetive. So you were called Osama or ignorant, big deal. I use to get my ass beat down because of my nationality. You should have kicked his butt or told him to go back to his trailer park.It's not like you don't pay your fucking taxes.
To Hameed Post#5
"BTW Anand, when you said "My mom is a muslim" I assume your father isn't? How could they get married then?"
Hameed, the reason you people live in crap is because you think like that, but that's ok, soon all of you will be living in democracy or be dead.
Seriously dude, they went to fucking City Hall and
signed marriage papers, moved in together had a baby, thats how. You know, non-muslims are homosapince too.
Anonymous - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
It is a common delusion in the Muslim world that somehow America and Israel are to be blamed for terrorism around the world. As pointed out above Islamic terrorism predates the existence of America as a nation. If you read about the life and deeds of the so-called “Prophet” Mohammed, you will realize that he was nothing more than the first Islamic terrorist. An ancient version of OBL.What good can come out of a religion designed by a pervert who rapes a 9 year old girl? Or slit the throats of several hundred Jews, who would have nothing to o with his new religion? A man who had his critics assassinated?
Do your own research into the life of the first Islamic terrorist (the so called prophet). You will find out what I state to be true.
Brian - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
Anand,
Kind of gives you pause after reading this blogg...did you realize who your audiance really was and the level of anger within it?
Regards.
Anonymous - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
is ur father a hindu anand?Captante - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
First congrats on the wedding, I personally wish you a long life & many healthy babys.As for the dork with the big mouth... my ancestors came from Ireland & suffered many of the same abuses... pity the guy, as he really has no idea what it means to be American
God (or Allah if you prefer) bless you and your new wife...may you have many happy years together... take care man :-)
7thson - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - link
I am saddened you had to experience the ugly way some people expess themselves.I go through a slightly similar situation where I live (Texas) due to my dress and accent being different from some of the people who live around me. I am a native of California....and it IS fact that I speak with a different accent and I DO dress in a different way (generally shorts, cotton liesure type shirt and Birkenstock sandals) and it is quite often people here feel the need to belittle this fact. (they tend to call my sandals Jesus sandals :>) ) People where I live tend to like to make negative remarks about my home state, when in fact most of whom I ask have never been there, or who have just flown through LAX on the way somewhere and somehow assume that since I am from California I am from L.A., when in fact I have not been to Los Angeles in over 20 years.
I am from an isolated area where the redwoods meet the Pacific Ocean and it is a little slice of heaven; beautiful, quiet, peaceful and clean.
Very soon we will be back on that coastline and enjoying peace and quiet once again.
Take care of yourself and enjoy your new life; I have now been married almost 20 years and it remains to have been the smartest move I have ever made and I have no regrets what so ever. Good luck to you both.
Steve
Farbdogg - Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - link
Anand, i dunno what to say, shit happens. As for the rest of you guys, keep posting, its halliarious. It seems like everyone takes for granted thier freedom of speech on this forum. As an American I am proud to live in my country; no other country provides the freedoms and economic opportunity as the US does.I find it funny that so many people say Americans are ignorant....so ironic...I personally am jaded to prejudice remarks and can't take them seriously. I dunno why you guys all act up on such stupid posts.
luigi2000 - Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - link
Anand,Congratulations on creating a great site that I visit often.
Generally, feelings get hurt all the time. It is regretful. But the handwringing from weak-willed and truly ignorant responders to this blog indicates that a bit of historical perspective is needed.
Mr. Joseph Farah tells the history of terrorism as a problem for the United States of America since the first congress...
----
No more appeasement
By Joseph Farah
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
Most Americans probably think the Islamic terrorists declared war on the United States Sept. 11, 2001.
Actually, it started a long time before - right from the birth of the nation.
In 1784, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Benjamin Franklin were commissioned by the first Congress to assemble in Paris to see about marketing U.S. products in Europe.
Jefferson quickly surmised that the biggest challenge facing U.S. merchant ships were those referred to euphemistically as "Barbary pirates."
They weren't "pirates" at all, in the traditional sense, Jefferson noticed. They didn't drink and chase women and they really weren't out to strike it rich. Instead, their motivation was strictly religious. They bought and sold slaves, to be sure. They looted ships. But they used their booty to buy guns, ships, cannon and ammunition.
Like those we call "terrorists" today, they saw themselves engaged in jihad and called themselves "mujahiddin."
Why did these 18th-century terrorists represent such a grave threat to U.S. merchant ships? With independence from Great Britain, the former colonists lost the protection of the greatest navy in the world. The U.S. had no navy - not a single warship.
Jefferson inquired of his European hosts how they dealt with the problem. He was stunned to find out that France and England both paid tribute to the fiends - who would, in turn, use the money to expand their own armada, buy more weaponry, hijack more commercial ships, enslave more innocent civilians and demand greater ransom.
This didn't make sense to Jefferson. He recognized the purchase of peace from the Muslims only worked temporarily. They would always find an excuse to break an agreement, blame the Europeans and demand higher tribute.
After three months researching the history of militant Islam, he came up with a very different policy to deal with the terrorists. But he didn't get to implement until years later.
As the first secretary of state, Jefferson urged the building of a navy to rescue American hostages held in North Africa and to deter future attacks on U.S. ships. In 1792, he commissioned John Paul Jones to go to Algiers under the guise of diplomatic negotiations, but with the real intent of sizing up a future target of a naval attack.
Jefferson was ready to retire a year later when what could only be described as "America's first Sept. 11" happened.
America was struck with its first mega-terror attack by jihadists. In the fall of 1793, the Algerians seized 11 U.S. merchant ships and enslaved more than 100 Americans.
When word of the attack reached New York, the stock market crashed. Voyages were canceled in every major port. Seamen were thrown out of work. Ship suppliers went out of business. What Sept. 11 did to the U.S. economy in 2001, the mass shipjacking of 1793 did to the fledgling U.S. economy in that year.
Accordingly, it took the U.S. Congress only four months to decide to build a fleet of warships.
But even then, Congress didn't choose war, as Jefferson prescribed. Instead, while building what would become the U.S. Navy, Congress sent diplomats to reason with the Algerians. The U.S. ended up paying close to $1 million and giving the pasha of Algiers a new warship, "The Crescent," to win release of 85 surviving American hostages.
It wasn't until 1801, under the presidency of Jefferson, that the U.S. engaged in what became a four-year war against Tripoli. And it wasn't until 1830, when France occupied Algiers, and later Tunisia and Morocco, that the terrorism on the high seas finally ended.
France didn't leave North Africa until 1962 - and it quickly became a major base of terrorism once again.
What's the moral of the story? Appeasement never works. Jefferson saw it. Sept. 11 was hardly the beginning. The war in which we fight today is the longest conflict in human history. It's time to learn from history, not repeat its mistakes.
----
I thank you, Mr. Joseph Farah.
justbrowzing - Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - link
One is not the whole by any means.That said, as an American living abroad for nearly ten years, I find it increasingly difficult to defend the US to foreign criticism, as I find so much more to critique myself. In fact, I find myself increasingly glad that I have largely escaped the madness that has descended upon my country, though it wrenches my heart to read the online US newspapers every day.
Sept. 11 has thrown the US into a fit of hysteria that will last a generation, and the entire world is now, and will long pay dearly as the country--the world's proverbial 800 lb. gorilla--thrashes mindlessly in hurt, fear and revenge.
A pall of anxiety and fear has descended on the world with those attacks, as we have all come to realize the possibilities for destruction at terrorits' disposal. That moron lashed out in reaction to this, pathetically, but inevitably.
Shobha - Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - link
Oops! That's sad, very sad! One can't really escape generalisations, can we? Shesssssssh!Anonymous - Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - link
#104OMG. If there ever were an argument for executing stupid people, your views would be the closing statement.
Anonymous - Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - link
As so many people have empathized with Anand, I will forgo doing more of the same and counter part of post 154 with a few of my own experiences.The Bay Area (which includes Silicon Valley) is nowhere free from such 'BS'. I grew up there, went through middle school, high school, and college there. There's plenty of prejudice and discrimination by both majorities and minorities.
While in highschool, there was a definite racial identification with almost every group/clique/gang. And all of the violent outbreaks during my highschool years were race-related in the sense that it was something like Latinos vs Blacks, Whites vs Asians, or whatever.
After highschool, I had hoped that attending UC Berkeley would save me from such racial tensions, but it didn't. There were plenty of Asian-only and White-only cliques. Not to mention I had met plenty of students, who despite being born and raised in the Bay Area, avoided inter-racial contact and openly advocated against inter-racial dating.
While I was in school, I also interned at many companies in the Bay Area, where I also saw such 'BS'. Like at a software company that had an almost entirely Asian staff except for one White programmer (not me). There were many group meetings with him that would switch entirely into Chinese. And sometimes they'd even make fun of him in Chinese, and he wouldn't even know.
And I'm only 22 years old, so these aren't events that happened in some distant past.
Prejudice is everywhere. And it will never go away. You just have to hope that a little less of that prejudice gets spread to the posterity.
Unless there is something I'm missing, the situation with Anand and the drunkard doesn't seem like a big deal. I doubt that once that guy sobered up that he was going to go out and hurt random Middle-Eastern people. So like post 154 said, live your live Anand, and don't let the incident get you down.
Anonymous - Monday, September 20, 2004 - link
Anand,Individuals are smart, but people are frightened and ignorant. The common fear of terror isn't going to go away as long as the media and the politicians have anything to do about it. Alcohol brings it to the surface and when people are scared we're all one moment away from mob-violence.
Breathe easy that you walked away, but these feelings are more prevalent than we'd hope - they're just below the surface.
When the enemy is everywhere and nowhere, when we're led to believe we're in imminent danger, when all we have to go on is an ethinicity... there's little else we can do but regard that ethinicity with distrust, fear and in the extreme, hatred.
BTW, I'm a white Brit living in the USA. I live in Silicon Valley, and I'm happy to say I work and play in a very diverse area, pretty much free of all this BS. But I've been to more white-centric parts of the US, and it's not pretty.
Live your life Anand. Don't let the hate get you down.
Bill - Monday, September 20, 2004 - link
I don't see where the connection that seems to be automatically made between ignorance and political beliefs on a large part of these comments comes from, but maybe that is my ignorance.Mohamedm - Monday, September 20, 2004 - link
AnandCongratulations on the wedding. Shame slightly spotted by the incident, but these issues happen as before diamonds are polished they have rough edges that need smoothing as well. After moving to England as a babe, and spending the rest of my life there, and whilst contracting in NYC at the time of the awful disaster 9/11, then returning home, l was more alienated as a consequence of being a muslim and being British!. Amazing all the contracting roles dried up instantly, and all of a sudden l did not belong!, at the time l vividly recall thinking how proud l was to be British and always felt tremendous loyalty to my country. I have since settled in Orlando, FL - BUT still miss my home!. That is life and we have to learn to raise above it all. Keep educating the people of this world, and ensure we continue to learn in the process. Good Luck and Keep you chin high.
Paul - Monday, September 20, 2004 - link
Join the club. I wrote about a similar experience of my own at http://www.paulfarag.com/?itemid=138Niege - Monday, September 20, 2004 - link
Anand, this guy was a jerk; a big, stupid, bigoted, ignorant, close-minded, un-American jerk.Freedom of speech is also, fortunately, the freedom to be a jerk and there are some fine examples of that species here. We need jerks to remind us of the democratic (small 'd') values of tolerance and respect for others' opinions. It only becomes a problem when the rest of us allow the jerks to dominate political life or the media or speech.
As for myself, I am a generic white American who married a fine woman of Japanese-Portuguese descent; who had Black business partner; who had a Chicano spiritual mentor; who has had Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, and several varieties of pagan friends. A major lesson that I’ve learned is that any time I think I know everything and have the 'perfect' and 'only' solution is when I am riding for a big big fall. If I don't know about other people and their culture and religion and ways of thinking I will be narrow, close-minded, and ultimately incomplete human being. If I am a leader and don’t learn from them then I will do one-sided thinking and 'stay on message' no matter how wrong it is which will only lead to mistrust, disillusionment, and ineffectiveness.
When I was living in Hawaii, where there is no ethnic majority, I heard some quite disparaging and unflattering things about 'haoles', or white people, from the same kind of un-American jerks. It stung. But that was my home at the time and I loved it. I went home to my mixed-race wife and talked about it. When she and I first got married there was quite a bit of controversy in my family. We had to talk about that, too. We had to deal with it all. Easy? No. Necessary? Yes. That is part of living in a multi-cultural society. There will always be bigots. There will always be those who know the ‘right’ way to think and the ‘right’ thing to do. And it will be: for them.
There is no greater punishment for a bigot than to let him (or her) live in that miasma of negativity and hate that they call righteous. There will be no happiness for that person until all his hates are vanquished. And yet if one is conquered there will always rise another and another. It is a cycle of unending hatred and misery 24/7 and they’re welcome to it. Just don’t try to foist if off on me. Or you.
Hang in, Anand. Let it sting; talk about it, including with us, but don’t let that cretin cause you to shrink your horizons.
Anonymous - Monday, September 20, 2004 - link
Name calling and now death threats? Come on. Anandtech readers are better than this. Any clear thinking person would disagree with this Richard fellow but the rhetoric against him is terrible. Please,lets all lighten up and disagree more politely.Hokum - Monday, September 20, 2004 - link
There is a name for people like the drunk, i think the word is Knobhead...Also i read what you where saying about the fact you dont walk about with an AK47, maybe thats the problem? You dont blend in with all americans with AK47's or other automatic guns being carried :)
The problem is that people fear what they dont know, and the average american (or brit for that matter) doesnt know what muslims do and so fear them.
Scott - Monday, September 20, 2004 - link
The guy was drunk and said what he felt. It’s really tough for people to think like they should. Inner city blacks are thought of as gang members and such, doesn't mean they all steal - but what you're dealing with is a perception problem. Who are 90% of the terrorists? Middle East. So there you go. It goes both ways, not all Americans are loud and obnoxious, but Europeans sure thinks so. This is perception, or racial stereotyping if you will... and it isn't going away. It isn't fair, but people dying every day from terrorists isn’t fair either. I'm a white American and by default I'm racist against blacks, I don't like that - but that’s the way I'm portrayed. One last thing to all the negative American comments - sure, we have problems and we screw up, but ask yourself this: Would you rather have the USA as the dominant force in the world, or Russia/Iraq/Saudi/N.Korea/Etc? If one of them had our power, this post wouldn't exist, believe it.Dan - Sunday, September 19, 2004 - link
Wow, I just took the time to read all of these comments, and can say from a truly unbiased standpoint that there are a lot of good points here and a couple of redneck idiots who don't know what they're talking about.For you, Richard... or should I call you Dick? Yeah, Dick, it's a hardware review site with a weblog on it. Since there is now a pro-american anti-racist statement on it, it's obviously pursuing a political agenda, becuase you know computer hardware has a lot to do with politics, right?
As for the rest of you, keep up the argument, disagreement is what this country was founded on (see congress, the opposite of progress), and only by reading the opinions of others can we truly learn.
Or something like that, I guess this is the problem with freedom of speech.
Keep up the work Anand... I'm still a fan.
Tom - Sunday, September 19, 2004 - link
#143 People don't ask why 911 happened any more than they ask why the Oklahoma city bombing happened. Because there is no answer that can justify what happened. In reality, both were an attempt by self-deluded individuals to cause a revolution by slaughtering innocents.To say that 911 happened because of the U.S. presence in Saudi Arabia or Palestinian struggle is to buy into a lunatic's argument. Go back and see how skillfully Hitler, Stalin and Saddam manipulated the world around them by telling the big lie and sticking to it.
If we cut off all support for Israel and withdrew our presence in the Middle East, do you think that would appease the religious zealots like al-Qaeda? No, there would be some other reason that we are at fault and we would continue to pay.
realist - Sunday, September 19, 2004 - link
why 9/11 started because of Israel and Palestinian think about itAnonymous - Sunday, September 19, 2004 - link
I find American's amazing...why don't Americans stop to ask themselves WHY 911 happened? The fact is that America is hopelessly biased towards Israel. The Palestinian question is the major source of conflict between the West and the Muslim world.
Al-Quaeda object to American military presence in holy lands (Saudi Arabia), America's unstinting support of Israel's illegal occupation. While you can disagree with their methods, you can't really deny the validity of their grieviances.
American's and the West seem to think that Palestianian parents raise their children to be suicide bombers. They never ask what desperate lives must this people lead that they must resort to this.
Iraq is a clear example of American arrogance - no t only does GWB not count the Iraqi civilians he murders as a result of his unjust war, the average American doesn't see anything wrong with that. iraqi life is cheap. Just as if you ask Americans how many died in Vietnam they will tell you 58000 Americans - forgetting or never knowing the 2-3 million Vietnamese who died.
Whenever American's commit atrocities like My Lai or Abu Gharib, American's say it is an aberration. The rest of the world sees it for what it is.
There is a reason America is more loathed and feared around the world today than ever before - by muslim and non-muslim alike. American should ask themselves why.
starjax - Sunday, September 19, 2004 - link
Greg, as first poster you also stated it very well. To paraphrase shakespear/star trek 6 people are afraid of change. Afraid of the unknown. They cling to what they know, not becuase its better, but because its what they are used to/comfortable with. For those people that have died in the middle east, all they want to put food on their table, roof over thier heads, and have a future for their children. Yet people continue to set off car bombs, take schools hostage, ect for what? It is easier for them to commit acts of violence than it is for them to embrace the undiscovered country and give peace a chance.I live in dallas, tx and work for TI. I am greatful that we have a diverse poppulation and great community. For Sept. 11th it seemed that the entire city went out to enjoy all the public events to celebrate "community" and Humanity. It was a great uplifting feeling.
Anand, all the good feelings that you have right now, especially when you look at your wife, and remember that people like him don't have that. Thats whats trully sad.
Anonymous - Sunday, September 19, 2004 - link
"Please don't make me feel unwelcome"Anand, please....since you're not a history major, let's just look at what truly "unwelcome" has meant in a historical context.
To be truly "unwelcome" has meant having your home or business destroyed. "Unwelcome" meant being bullied or coerced. "Unwelcome" meant never rising to a higher position or status, having your money or land taken illegally. "Unwelcome" meant armed people in the middle of the night came into your home and took your loved ones away.
"Unwelcome" has meant african slave trade, kristallnacht, the holocaust, the KKK, lynchings, burnings, wholesale destruction of lives and property. Unwelcome means Pakistanis being murdered in the streets of Germany by neo-nazis and the cops, who agree with the nazis, look the other way. I could go on for hours... Need I remind you that these are all REAL things that happened to REAL people who felt REAL pain, just as REAL as your episode with the drunk. Imagine if that drunk had a gun and could've used it without any consequences. Then you will know what "unwelcome" has meant throughout history.
Let's look at what "unwelcome" does NOT mean. "Unwelcome" does NOT mean your own business, lots of friends, freedom of movement, decision and speech, safe legal ways to express your culture, religon, and a big fat wallet. I would assume you have all of those.
Listen, I'm sorry you ran into a jerk, we all do. The talent of a jerk is to find our soft underbelly, and exploit it. And he did. So f--ing what? Can you handle it? Are you a man? Are you an American? These are questions we can only answer ourselves.
I would advise you to take a page from the ancsetors of your culture that preceeded you, and who dealt with more racism than you ever will- draw a line around your family, your work and your community of friends and loved ones and take care of them the best you can. Then shut up and let God, Allah, or Vishnu do the rest. It worked for them.
Anonymous - Sunday, September 19, 2004 - link
I have experienced only one racist incident in the past 1 year I have lived in the USA. I consider this to be a compliment to the US. I have lived and worked in Europe and in the Middle East. The amount of racism in Europe is much higher than in the US.The Middle East (read Arab heartland) reeks with intolerance for anything non Muslim; in Saudi Arabia and the other Muslim states I worked in, no one is permitted to build churches or temples and propagate faiths other than Islam. You might have noticed that a few Muslim gentlemen had a problem with a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim; these guys do not represent a minority opinion in the Muslim world.
Anonymous - Sunday, September 19, 2004 - link
Like someone said, it is a human problem. The guy is an idiot. There are idiots like that in society. It is a fact, and we as people must work towards educating these idiots (how about some education on world religion at like around grade 3 or 4, the age when they start critically thinking about the world around them, and are exposed to sensitive issues and have a developing sense of self?).There needs to be more education. However, in your case Anand, it appears that it was an adult who said this? How unfortunate. I know how it feels to be discriminated and treated differently because of things beyond your control, as I have been through racism. As said, it is imperative to teach children about the world around us, different people, their beliefs, and teach them to learn to appreciate differences. This education should be available and taught to everyone.
It must be even more frustrating for you for this to happen when you are having such a great time, and a very contributing member of America; to know that there are idiots who insult you based on your differences.
After 9/11, it appears that discrimination against people with brown skin. The idiots who commit such heinous acts are, well, idiots. I am sure that the chances that this would have happened would have been much lower had that person gone through some sort of education regarding the world's people during childhood. I do not mean a silly little introduction, what I mean is a rigerous understanding and acceptance and appreciation of the world around them and all the people who live in it.
Unfortunately, the media also has been idiotic in its typical stereotype of the terrorist. I am talking about the news. CNN is a good example. They are a good news organization, but some of their thoughtless portrayals speak of their inner idiocy.
I think the government should also direct its efforts in cracking down on racism.
All in all, racism is something that darkens the world. It is up to us to educate the children, the young ones who will be shaping the world in the years to come, about the people of the world, equality, teach them to learn to live with and appreciate the differences among people, and live in co-operation, peace, and harmony. It is as simple as that. Education is the key in preventing racism.
On a side note, the education would not only solve the racism issue, but also other differences, like sexism and the such. It can all be stopped with education.
Stephen Brooks - Saturday, September 18, 2004 - link
For all those of you who have just read through the above 137 comments, "Welcome to the Internet".Anonymous - Saturday, September 18, 2004 - link
#123 - Richard: How did you hit a nerve? We are all readers on this site and are in no way affiliated to this site so if AnandTech shows bias, which has never happened, in their reviews we will always be here to critize them. Remember the CPU review that Kristopher K. did and thousands of readers were mad at AnandTech because it was an unfair comparison. Guess what AnandTech did, they fixed the review with another article and everything is back to normal now.Where have you noticed bias in AnandTech articles due to Anand's political thinking. Were you drunk when you were posting your comments?
And don't post bullshit like "Hmmm. I sense too much protest here about my comments. Maybe I hit a nerve. The truth can be painful at times but I think if you embrace it fully you will be a much happier person."
You know your comments were dumb because Anandtech doesn't mix their personal thoughts with their professional reviews. THIS IS ANAND's WEBLOG and he can talk about whatever he want. This is not part of the "professional" part of the site.
You are stupid, you muthafu**a, you a** hol*.
You deserve to be killed.
ernie - Saturday, September 18, 2004 - link
there are alot of idiots in this world, not just this country,but every country and theres not much we can do about it eccept teach the one who will learn and pray for those who will not.best wishes, brotha
Dan - Saturday, September 18, 2004 - link
First of all congratulations on your wedding, I have been happily married for 7 years and highly recommend it :)Second of all, I am sorry some dummy made an offensive remark to you, it is inexcusable. However, while we should all we can do to condem this type of behavior and try to convince people not to do it, I must say I am a bit surprised you have not had this happen before and that it has had such an emotional impact on you. Like you, I grew up in Raleigh, though I am was in middle school in the earily 80's. I went to a mostly black school (because at the time it was the only magnet school in the county) and I was acosted many times, and pushed around several times. Since I have been an adult, I have been called a "dirty howlie" (white person) in Hawaii, and a "Damned American" (or the local equivelant) in the Phillipines. I have had several different drunk people try to pick fights with me in the US in Raleigh and Los Angeles. Really, no matter where you go, I think there are some percent of the people who are mean and angry, and if you are around drunk people the percentage is much higher. It really sounds to me like a drunk looking to pick a fight and nothing more. Of course that does not excuse what he did and as I said before we should do what we can to prevent such things, but I do think you should try to be a little prepared for such things and not let them get to you so much. I doubt most people will live through their lives without such things happening unless they are never around drunk strangers.
Redneck Richard - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link
When a person claims to be a victim, I have come to think they are whining, wanting something for nothing. Just what is it you really want, Anand?I ask again, why did you write your blog? Why do you think it belongs here?
egarc - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link
#97 It is not ignorance that I believe almost all terrorists are Muslim, it is denial on yours. You have this intellectual facade but have not examined the facts yourself.The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam have been quiet for almost three years and have not committed ANY acts of terrorism in that time.
The Irish Republican Army has not been considered a terrorist group since July 2002, although they do have two splinter groups that are still active.
If you look at the numbers, Islamic terrorist groups are the major majority.
Again, I do not believe all Muslims are terrorists, in fact the extremists are a small minority.
Signal - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link
Nick, I agree 100%. I too have a mostly German herritage and I've noticed an interesting phenomenon. The same people that, rightfully so, say we should not look badly upon Muslims due to 9/11, are some of the same people who give me a sideward, almost disgusted look when they learn of my herritage.Interesting is it not? Humankind is a strange beast.
Nick - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link
In the weeks and months after 9/11 I was amazed at the anti-Arab/anti-Muslim sentiment I was hearing from the kinds of people that I had previously thought were nice and normal. I was working on a TV show at the time and a lot of the crew members were laughing themselves sick making cruel Arab jokes. It really shocked me that seemingly intelligent people couldn't differentiate between al Qaeda and the Arab population at large. Then again, it's happened before. During World War II, most Americans considered all the Germans evil, not just the Nazis. Even now, as someone with mostly German heritage, it disappoints me to hear people offhandedly refer to Germans as Nazis. I guess some people just can't see more than one side to anything. It's mostly their loss, but it's also unfortunate that the rest of us have to put up with it.souka - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link
Hey Anand,You're born in the country, run for President in 20(?) years....
My $.02
Resh - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link
My roots, generations back are Tamil and Indian. My parents, and their parents, were born and raised in Mauritius, where the population is a total ethnic and religious mosaic. My Dad was raised Hindu and my Mom Catholic, despite her having a Hindu mother. We've lived in Canada since 1975 and have had dual citizenship since 1979, when I was 6.Canada is a great place to live, but we have our share of racists here so I'm familiar with Anand's experience as well as the sense of being considered to be potential terrorist, during visits to the US.
With my diverse background, and my own agnosticism, the notion of "loving" one's country has always intrigued me. I've often asked, "What is a country?". A "people" is simpler to define: common beliefs, language, societal norms, but country is tougher.
I've never figured it out, but it vexes me every time I hear (or read, in the case of Anand) someone say, "I love my country". What is it you love? Are you sure that your neighbour would agree with how you define your country and see that which you love in his own conception of the same country? Is what you love unique to your country? A very esoteric question, but one that I think everyone should consider given that some of us are willing to "die", or worse yet, "kill" for our country? Imagine a world was no one was willing to do either?
Secondly, while I wouldn't wish Anand's experience on him, his comments seem to indicate that he was blissfully unaware of the hateful forces that live just under the skin of all societies. As such, it was probably good that his "frame of reference" has been "fixed". I applaud him writing about this.
Lastly, 9/11 was a tragedy, but I can't accept, intellectually, that anyone of voting age, who lives in a democracy, is "innocent". If one votes for a government, one is indirectly responsible for it's actions. In fact, one could easily argue that citizens of democracy are more valid targets than citizens of a dictatorship since the latter have so say. To accept that the citizen is innocent is to do away with democracy.
At any rate, I fully agree with the posters that expressed the sentiment that we, as a species have to get around our artifical notions of "belonging", including county and religion, to recognize that we all just want to live our lives in peace. As such, I suggest Anand change his headline to, "I AM A PERSON". Those of you in the US have a choice to make soon. To my way of thinking, your choice is: Who will move my country towards what I want the world to be, not what I think it can be.
Simplistic? Yes, but also the only viable starting point.
richard - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link
Anand, well said.The USA is a country that belongs to all its citizens. Don't let your political leaders (Republican or Democrat) change that by whipping up unthinking anti-muslim or racist feelings for their short term political gain.
knitecrow - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link
When people classify each other on the basis of religion, race, and even nationality ... it only divides us. I consider myself first and foremost, a human being. It’s not something I am proud of either; most human beings are ignorant, arrogant apes. Heck, we give apes a bad name. Little has changed since the stone-ages. We find a reason to divide ourselves and to kill each other….Anand, you need to worry about not fitting in because of your skin colour / ethnicity. If you look at the population growth rate in different part of the world, the Indian sub-continent has the highest. I'll bet that eventually everyone will be brown, or some combination of Indian-Chinese.
On a shorter time scale, and looking closer to America, the influx from porous southern border if surely mean that most Americans will be some shade of brown and speak a language other than English as their first language. Most people probably can’t tell the difference between a Mexican and an Indian.
Food for thought.
James - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link
Congratulations on the wedding. I think you should ignore the drunk guy. It was a harmless comment, I bet it seemed funny to him at the time. I doubt he said that to hurt you. If it were me, I'd brush it off and wouldn't think about it. No point letting a drunkard ruin your day.Anonymous - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link
if you go to the redneck forums, you'll be a happier person too! lolKrazyDawg - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
#123You are one ignornant, insensitive, indifference, and selfish [insert word here].
Richard - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Hmmm. I sense too much protest here about my comments. Maybe I hit a nerve. The truth can be painful at times but I think if you embrace it fully you will be a much happier person.Signal - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
#114My bad. I forgot that you, Mr. Anonmymous #114, are the sole proprietor of all that is true, correct, and wise. Everyone else needs to "go get some education".
Right...
The U.S. foreign policies are the sole generator of terrorism around the world... Sure.
The U.S. is the only country who sells weapons and training to other groups... ah, sure.
The fighter jets dug out of the sand in Iraq were what again? MIGs? I guess America makes MIGs as well. Right
I'm sure you'll find a way to say the U.S. created the IRA as well.
#114... give me a break. When is the last time Isreal blew up a car bomb in Palestine? Oh yeah, never. Rather, it's the Palestinians who are using terrorism tactics.
I'll tell you want #114. I'll make it real easy for you. Tell me the name of another super power who has a better track record than the U.S. in regards to foreign policy and helping create freedom around the world. Give me the name of a country that gives away more money, medicine, and food around the globe than the U.S. Tell me which country's education system educates more people worldwide?
Has the U.S. been perfect? Of course not. No country run by humans will be. But to make it out as though America is the current great evil of the world is sickening. I'm glad I wasn't "educated" where you were.
icedrop - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
#104i dont know what kind of drug are you taking... but that is the most demented kind of mindset i have ever seen.
George - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
FOr Richard - Post #104:You're a dick. Go away. Since the Reagan years the US has done nothing but piss off the entire middle east.
To put some perspective on things, one of the principles the US was founded upon was
freedom of religion. Not all muslims are terrorists, just as not all blacks are lazy, or not all irish are drunks, or all poles are stupid, or all ___ are ___.
The general mark of an uneducated person is one who makes and follows such generalizations.
I'm sure this has been expressed adequately. But: Richard - you're a dick. Go away.
Anonymous - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
#116: My comments were for Richard, post #104. Got confused a bit. Heh... :)My apologies.
BoomBoom - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
I know everyboy here wants world peace and love for mankind. Well, WAKEUP!!! It's not going to happen!Most people in the middle east do not like America. They may like individuals that are from America, but the country itself is a target.
I have read several sites translated from arabic and english publications for an eastern audience. They do polls just like CNN and it shows most of them think we had it coming and Osama is a Hero!
It is few on both side who are enlightened and realize that we are all the same race. If you believe you are an American then you better stand up for yourself and to the bullies you may encounter. Freedom doesn't come free. Don't be a pussy or you deserve what you get.
PS I am not a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or etc.
I don't care what your race or religion is pal.
Anonymous - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
#104, You are with us or against us.... This is the drunk type that votes for Bush. Get some perspective before bullshitting.....#114 You could mention that Israel has violated several UN resolutions (one of the arguments used against Iraq) and nobody does anything about it. US would veto any action in the security council. As for WMD, Israel has it also. Just another argument used against Iraq.
And you are absolutely right about US supporting groups outside US that turn into trouble later. This was done also a lot in Latin America during the 60/70s, when US supported/financed the right wing military ditactorships that executed people in the opposition. Just name the country: Chile, Panama, Argentina...... All of this is well documented and exposed after democracy was established.
Anonymous - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
#115 Lol.. read the post crefully. My comments were directed to #112 and have nothing to do with Anand. I agree with Anand 100%Anonymous - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
#114: What in the world are you talking about? So Anand can't post his views on a personal topic. How does that make him biased in Processor and Motherboard reviews?What are you talking about? Did you had a fight with your wife/girl friend?
Try to get your comments straight. Reread your comments and you will realize that they don't make any sense whatsoever.
Anonymous - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
OMG. #112. Please read some history. Get some education and then start talking. I am sure it was never intended to be the U.S v.s. Muslims. But that is exatcly what it has become.As you said in your post "The world is in a war v.s. the terrorists. It's not the U.S. v.s. Muslims" Where do you think these terresoist come from? They are the creation or years of U.S foreign policy. Where do you think Saddam got his weapons? Where to do think the Talibans got their weapons and their training. Yes you can thank the almighty U.S. for all of this.
The U.S has a very indiffent attidude to the genocide being commited in Palestine by the Isrealis. Is that not terrorism? Why does the U.S. not choose to fight that? "Signal" you said "There are madmen out there who not only kill and repress their own people," well how is that diffent from what the Isrealis are doing to the Palestinians. Its murder all the same. Yet the U.S. chooses to do nothing. Open your eyes to what the hell is actually going on and educate yourself before forming a biased opinion.
Anonymous - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Richard is another example of the ignorant rednecks that have plagued this beautiful country with their "tunnel vision" and can't stand to see anyone expressing anything that they don't agree with! BTW seems like Richard was the person who was drunk that night and made a hateful comment towards Anand. Im sure if you went through the same experience as Anand then you'd be in a cheerful mood. This is a forum to talk about anything and it's called freedom of expression, not a redneck forum so if you don't like it...LEAVE!Signal - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Oh look, another opportunity for people to bash America. Just what the internet needed.Secondly, why seperate the deaths of 9/11 and those from the war on terror? They are one in the same. How about those killed in Oklahoma City? Or those in the Marine Barracks or on the USS Stark. How about the USS Cole? Or the deaths caused by the missile strikes in Iraq? The 3000 deaths of 9/11 were just more deaths in the same war, as are the 1000+ dead soldiers to date in Iraq as well as the countless innocent people of Iraq who have died. The terrorists have openly declared war against the "zionist states" and all the innocent deaths are on their hands.
The world is in a war v.s. the terrorists. It's not the U.S. v.s. Muslims. This should never be forgotten. 9/11 was a huge wake up call and it's about time we take the war as seriously as our enemies have.
Oh and to whomever claimed there are no WMD and therefore no connection between Saddam's regime and terrorism, you really need to put politics aside. There are madmen out there who not only kill and repress their own people, but also want to kill as many westerners (and especially Americans) as they can. Saddam was one of them and to say otherwise simply because you don't like the current American leader is lunacy.
Heh Heh - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
As a new American, be sure to:1: Invest in extra elastic waistbands for
your forthcoming girth expandsion
2. Remember that your new adopted country
was founded on genocide and slavery (largely
by the ex-con criminal fraternity of Britain)
and, just like abused children who grow up to
themselves be abusers, has a viscious, self-loathing that it projects onto the rest of the world.
America _is_ "Old Europe".
Saddam Hussein greets Donald Rumsfeld:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
Haroon Saleem - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
#104 Rihard, that is perhaps the dummest thing I've ever heard. Why oh why can't people be any smarter than you are. Maybe then the world would really be at peace. Thinking you you Richard, a quite comes to mind, "best be thought a fool,than to open one's mouth and let out all shadow of doubt".
HGC - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Thanks for sharing your experience, Anand. Not only are you an American, but a hell of a good one I'd say, starting a great business from scratch and succeeding by helping others.I guess the guy who accosted you thought his skin color was something special. I feel sorry for him.
jrphoenix - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
If you read the reviews on this website you will see there is no political slant on a review of hardware / software. Heck, most of the reviews aren't even done by Anand. If you choose to read the guys personal blog where he talks about family life, his recent marriage, his degree he recently finished, etc... then you chose to do that. This blog has nothing to do with reviews on the website on hardware & software.After reading your love it or leave it post above, maybe you should consider reading a blog or better yet, hardware / software review site run by Limbaugh, Coulter, or better David Duke!
I can see the reviews from that site now... Don't buy ATI, those pinko b*st*rds are too cowardly to support the US in invading Iraq. LOL...
Do you know what a blog is? Do you think the guys whole life only consists of hardware / software reviews? Heck, I am a consevative leaning person who recently left the Republican party because there are too many extreme views held by those at top (read Cheney, Wolfowitz, Bush, Libby, Ashcrosft)... not Powell. I am now an independent with conservative values :)
Richard - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Everyone's judgement on anything is based on that persons bias or perceived reality. Being that this is only a computer hardware review website, why did Anand feel he had to write this article? To me it has lessened the quality or respect I had for this site because I now have a bias based what I interpreted from his blog. Why oh why can't people stay with what they are good at and not state their ideology or give opinions outside their box?RyanVM - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Richard, as someone who generally votes Republican, might I say that that's one of the dumbest rants I've ever seen. Are you friends with Ann Coulter or something?First, how exactly does one's political leanings affect their judgment on reviewing COMPUTER HARDWARE?
Second, I don't see how you can say that just because a guy is hurt and upset because someone made an ignorant racist comment towards him that he's suddenly some far left idealogue? Give me a break.
I think you need a reality check.
jrphoenix - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
#104 is the next drunk ignoramous.... or just a hardcore ditto head. Obviously, you have never felt discriminated againt. If a moron makes him feel unwelcome, even though Anand was born here... Anand should leave? What a moron.Richard - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Oh damn! Another website I used to like. I used to enjoy Firing Squad until an editor there shamelessly started to push his far left agenda. Don't make the same mistake. Anand, this country owes you nothing. If America makes you feel unwelcome, leave.Now that I know your idealogy I can not take for granted the articles in here are 100 percent accurate anymore. Thanks a lot!
Please in the future don't let your bias or political position be known. I now feel you are arrogant and naive. Please don't further make me hate your website.
catch77 - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Anand, congrats on getting hitched.but don't be naive. I don't say this to be insulting or to belittle you. for someone who was born in this country you seem to know little about it. I also tend to agree with #31, although I know that the contry is not built by any one person, or in any given amount of time. excessive pride comes from ignorance, but at the same time you have to take with humilty that you add to 'building' and making this country by virtue of being an American.
Anonymous - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Also check www.ihatealqaeda.comdaniel - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Here is another website which makes it clear that the terrorists are not muslims in any way as they are definitely not acting upon the teaching of the Holy Koran and infact have distorted the meanings to serve their own sick agenda! http://www.voy.com/96956/WarMonger - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Anybody miss the good old days where it was just us against the Russians?Didn't matter what color or religion. It was commies vs capitalist.
AnnieNonMouse - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
Choose your poison:Bush: Dumbass Cowboy -- Wants to meet Osama at high-noon. Shoot'em all and let god sort it out.
Kerry: Oily Used Car Salesman -- Confuse everybody with bullshit and cash the check before the voter realizes he's been had.
Thermonuclear War: Tired of all the bullshit. Lets press the red button baby! Doctor Strangelove here i come.
Anonymous512 - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
I have to tell you I have mixed feelings.My first feeling is that the drunk that bothered you had no balls - he said his piece just to upset you, to ruin your day (or try to) and left. Once I got over his rudeness, I would have told him to go shove and how to do it. Psychic parasites. Sheesh.
A while after 9-11 happened, we had some idiot out here in Oregon (in Eugene south of me) that walked up to a Sikh lady in a turban with his hand shaped like a pistol and menacingly said "Bang your dead". He got arrested, tried to say it was a joke. I hope they threw him in the klink for awhile for intimidation. I know the police and the DA were taking it very seriously.
On the other hand.....
Understand that I have never read the Quran but what little I know about Islam it seems predisposed to marry church and state.
I am hungry - personally as a non-muslim American for a...a decision tree? a consensus? to emerge in the Islamic faith that proclaims and makes a statement, that... as a faith, it will not stand by and let the vehicle of the faith be hijacked by ... "nutbars". A statement that builds into the faith that it is/does or will flat out disown violence. That the end does not justify the means, regardless of sympathy the Palestinian question.
I will not be liked on either side for saying various things here but..I have read the history on it, and the way it was done, that land was stolen from the Palestinians. I don't know what the answer is but what's happening now is not working.
I believe if people have enough to eat, security, safety and a future, if they get educated they generally don't have a desire to become terrorists. Heck you have a decent job and a pretty signifigant other/family/friends ..who wants to hate anyone? You have your own life.
The crop for todays terrorists was sown a long time ago partly by no-questions asked American polices regarding the Saudi regime in exchange for oil. The disparity of riches and poverty there. This has been coming for 40 years. Sad but true. It's like my stepmother said one time: "People get funny, when it comes to money..". And I like money - dont get me wrong but...
Compassion and generosity have to come forward in this world or we will all disappear. The world has an incredible situation to defuse - I don't know if it can be done.
Haroon Saleem - Thursday, September 16, 2004 - link
#14. I think it is extremeley ignorant on your part to think that almost all terrosits are Muslims.Your views of the world seem to be based on the tunnel vision that the American media tries to project. If you would take the time to read a little more you would realize that there are several other terrorist/militant organizations around the world. Perhaps you have heard of the IRA in Ireland? Did you know that in any given year (except for 2001) the highest amount of people killed at the hands of militants are in Sri Lanka by the Tamil Tigers who happen to be Hindu.
There are black sheep in every community and it's about time that we stop basing our views on the fabricated reality presented by the media. It never hurts to read as much as we can and look for other news sources than what is being broadcast in America.
Anonymous - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
#90, That was one of the most ignorant rants that I have read in recent memory. I congratulate you.I should say that you seem really repressed, almost hostile. Perhaps you need an enema.
Drunk - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
Congrats Anand,I just wanted to point out that there is far too much drunk bashing in this thread. Just as there are many types of people in the world, there are many types of drunk.
I am one of the happy kind. The one you encountered was one of the sad, bitter, jerk kind.
So, everybody stop bashing drunks and start bashing jerks.
Drunk
Anonymous - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
#90: you are a fucking dumbass. never talk.Brian - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
Just as the USA is not a monolithic race of people, neither is our ability to express fear, concern and yes hatered of those you intend to do us harm. Many, as seen in the previous comments however, help to balance the scale of ignorance and enlighteded thought. But it will never eliminate ignorance.
Stay true and hope the rest see some light.
Brian
Jiro - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
Dear Anand,Sorry to hear about your experience. You are lucky things didn't turn out for the worse. I'm Japanese-American, i have been putting up with this type of non-sense my whole life, as you will (do) too. Its amazing how people feel the need to voice their opinion (or their fist) for no reason... I can't pump a full tank of gas w/o someone yelling a racial slur.
Take care.
-Jiro
David - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
Hey Anand,I just wanted to let you know that the complaint you just made is extremely common and happens all of the time in the United States, at least from what people tell me. It's honsetly disgusting.
It's a strange co-incidence that the other night, I met a guy from New York City who complained about similar issues. It was his first time in Toronto, Canada and he couldn't stop going on about how much he loved it here. He said that Toronto is basically a "Mini New York", citing a similar urban culture, but that we have "somehow found a way to co-exist". I've lost count of the number of tourists which have shared similar sentiments with me.
The type of racial tension that you describe is extremely rare here. I just wanted to let you know that there indeed *are* places where people from all over the world can co-exist peacefully. I myself grew up in the most multicultural community on earth, located in the northeast end of Toronto. Within walking distance of my house, there was a Hindu temple, a Muslim mosque, and a handful of Christian churches. In 20 years of living there, I never witnessed a single racial incident, and none of those churches were ever defaced or vandalized.
The bottom line: Move to Toronto, people like you enrich our lives and our collective culture.
Tonyukuk - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
I don't understand how a human can be stupid as an american?All your high-life standarts require blood of "others". You have large-houses, expensive cars, hive-perf. comps, degenerated religions and brains full of hamburger spoils.
First of all; the reason of attacking in Iraq and Afghanistan by Usa wasn't 9/11 story. "Others" in Iraq live 9/11 everyday. Because Us citizens must have cheap petrol -even cheaper blood.
If you believe the 9/11 story, then how can u tell Vietnaem, Cuba, first Iraq war etc..?
You escaped from Vietnaem because of China, and also escaped from Cuba bec. of U.S.S.R. But Iraq seems they haven't got a strong country on b-ground.
Usa is a dummy in crash-tests using by Israel and i have to say this time test will be end with a tragedy.
It's certain that America is going to attack Iran in near future and also to Syrian.
Arabians and Persians will loose this war, because Usa has great weapons, but American soldiers won't understand the meaning of war until they face with Turks.
We are not the others, time will show...
Madelga - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
Hi Anand,'I'm sorry for your experience. I know it bothers you, on the other hand that's an eye opener - it is good sometimes to have a wake-up call.
Don't make from the exception the general rule.
I have also an event that pissed me a lot last year. I work for an american company (top 5), you cannot tell where I came from just looking at me, I have B1/B2 Visa valid for 10 years to enter US and last time I went through US Customs (after 9/11), I was threated like garbage by the immigration officer. I was almost turned back, without reason, without provocation, no explanation. My sin was to have a passport from a country he didn't like....Brazil - that by the way, is peaceful, hosts no terrorism and had nothing to do with 9/11.
I could avoid this using my other passport, european, from a country that belongs to the "friends" list, but I stand for where I come from.
And for the americans that vote, please do the world a favor and just cast Bush out. That's the worst guy, ever.
Anonymous - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
#31 Vancello: Let's not even get into the whole grammar issue. First of all, we are not discussing grammar here and secondly, you don't have to be grammatically correct in order to express your opinions. Who cares if someone didn't put a common or if the sentence is a run-on; as long as the sentence makes sense and the idea gets through, everything is good.BTW, you are not gramatically correct. "Your's is" does not make sense in any way so it is better to proof read your thread 100 times before you click the post button. I think you showed your ignorance by posting that message. If you don't have something to add to the conversation, it is better to stay out of it rather than making a fool out of yourself by posting a completely irrelevant comment.
Don't even think about attacking me with my post because I know that mine is not perfect either.
crimson117 - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
Anand,You're infinitely more welcome in my home than that drunk jerk.
bbomb - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
All this over the comments that one person made. Every country has their assholes and I seriously doubt that he was the first one you have encountered and wont be the last. Americans hate other Americans just as much as some hate Muslims. Its all part of the melting pot and humanity.Anonymous - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
I am in the military and can honestly say that I hold no hatred towards anyone's culture or people. I'm sorry that someone would say such a thing to yourself Anand. It's people such as yourself that are a valuble part of the community. Best advice I can give is let this man's words roll off you as water to a ducks feather's.Anonymous - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
Hellophoptic - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
it´s quite simple: You cannot expect that all people are as intelligent as in this forum. There´s no difference between europe and usa if racism comes into play.I´m european, if it matters
mehdi - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
Hi anandIm an iranian and i have been a fan of your site for a long time.
First congratulations on your wedding and i wish you love , happiness and health .I think your people should realize that the way a country acts is based on the governments not ordinary people . And most of us in iran arent against anyone and we are completley against any kind or terrorism. And what we see in iran or anywhere else isnt a sample of a complete islamic country not even near it . Here seems the word "ISLAM" has turned into a power source in hands of my Gov. and a Target to blame for many problems in your country`s Gov. .
We all are humans and should like each other for as much as love we have in our hearts .
Vancello - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - link
#31 Your's is, in my opinion, the most completely accurate assesment of this thread. One has only to observe the unbelievably bad grammar used in most of these postings to validate a well deserved suspicion of the intelligence behind them. Peace Annand!pptl - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
Replying to 70 - Posted by gumbico,I totally agree with post #70. I live in Bush Land and let me tell you, I Fourth generation Chinese-American are still considered foriegners. After work, most have to find other Asian friends to hang out because their caucasien counterparts are doing "American stuff". Sure they may offer to join them, but do you feel comfortable enough to "be yourself." I'm classified as an Asian, but it all a facade, beciuse in the end there is just ME. Hang tight, because there's always CANADA, the other 1st world country REALLY run by immigrants.
pptl
Steve G - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
-You don't have to shout your condolences from the mountain top to be sympathetic.-You don't have to put an American flag you your Ford truck to be patriotic.
-You don't have to want to live in this country to be a decent person.
-You don't have to be apathetic towards the tens of thousands of innocents who died in the war on terror to be sorry for the thousands (and their families) who died on 911.
-Even white Christians are heretics to someone.
-You can be white and USA-born and believe these things without shame. I know I do.
There's a lot of $#$% flying around. It's all misunderstandings that stems from the assumption that one knows exactly what the other person is talking about, even though one doesn't have a clue. Please...
slay9 - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
Anand,I completely know where you're coming from. I was born in Afghanistan, but I was raised in the United States. This is the only home I know. After 9/11, I joined the Navy to become a SEAL (something to do with revenge as you mentioned.) To this day I still get "looks" probably similar to what you got. Practically everytime I have to fly anywhere, I get a lot of grief from airport security. Keep your chin up my friend, you're not the only one...
Anonymous - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
Bodily identification by any name whether it be national or religious is the real ignorance. As long as we base our identity entirely on our physical forms, this kind of prejudice is unavoidable. Consciousness is the common denominator of all life, which should be properly respected, as we would expect others of ourselves. If we could only learn that our real identity is beyond the temporary identities we take up for 100 years or so. That consciousness, the symptom of the soul is the common denomonator. How trivial are our likes and dislikes, ups and downs, bruised or boosted egos, of a tiny speck in the midst of a billion years. Whether we die now or in 40 years, in the end it's all pretty inconsequential, and ultimately inevitable.MySympathies - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
hey, anand. i'm deeply angered and saddened by what happened to you. my friend's sister was assaulted the day after 911 because she is lebanese, so i definitely am no stranger to this kind of thingbut as much as i hate to diminish what heppened to you, many people have and continue to endure similar things. african americans (especially males) such as myself constantly endure prejudice-enduced slights every day. women sometimes clutch their purses when i walk by, i occasionally get the "you're a shoplifter" look whenever i walk into a store, and this all goes on in a pretty liberal and prominent academic community. sadly, it's the kind of thing that is associated with being in a minority group. baptism by fire, as it were.
don't let it make you bitter. you'll be alright.
roostercrows - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
prejudice is ignorance bordering on stupidity!i am about as much of a "wasp" looking person as you can get. blond hair, blue eyes, german/swiss ethnicity 6'2" etc. i only mention this because that guy that came up to you may not have been drunk because i hae found that many people (because of the way i look) have revealed their prejudice to me in confidence because they just assume that i hold the same beliefs as they do! how stupid of them!
they don't know that i marched with martin luther king in the sixties, that my dearest friends are indian, african american, jewish, philipino, vietnamese and yes, iranian! this is not an attempt to tell you what a wonderful, unprejudiced, enlightened person i am or to use the "some of my best friends are..." line to appear superior. but really anand, if you asked me what my experience was with iranian "americans" you might be surprised. i only worked with "them" ten years, was invited to many a good home as well as many a huge wedding (great food! btw) met with perhaps over 250 on a close personal basis and when i asked many of them what they really thought of americans they would tell me that "our (american)lives were about of as much value to them as that of a chickens". killing us was easy for them. we weren't human! so, do i base my opinion of all iranians on perhaps the 80 ignorant, brainwashed iranians i spoke with out of how many millions of iranians that i didn't meet? not likely, because i know better and so do you. the wise iranians i have met (the other 170) hate the ignorance of their fellow country men more than i do and imo, they have good reason.
there are more ignorant people than not in this world and it takes a leap of faith to trust in the decent side of humans, with most evidence pointing to the contrary. you know all the examples i could list, sudan, middle east, united states, russia, etc. etc. it's seems endless really. it's a choice we make brother, and far from the most expedient one. take care.
kitsura - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
sorry lots of typo a bit tired its 2am in the morning here...RyanVM - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
Where'd you honeymoon anyway?RyanVM - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
Where'd you honeymoon anyway?kitsura - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
I understand your pain, but having come from a truly multi-racial and multi-cultural society, I'm from Singapore btw, I can say that the guy was way out of line so don't be bothered by him.Sure you two probably don't look the same but haven't he learnt from WWII that being a white supremacist doesn't pay. Anyway I don't think there is no country in the world now that can claim to be truly single racial what with the massive push for globalisation.
Maybe some Americans just need to have more tolerance and education so that they don't jump to conclusions. Over in my country we are thought at grade school level of all the other races and their cultures so that with knowledge come a greater understanding and greater tolerances. Anyone who has been to Singapore will know the mish mash of races that constitute the population.
Congratulation on your marriage, take care.
gumbico - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
Welcome to the club Anand. I'm suprised it took you this long to feel this way about America. Being an ABC I know that no matter how much money I make or how well I speak English or how well I dress or how well educated I am, I will never be considered an "American." The moment WW3 breaks out between US and China I already know what to expect from some of my fellow Americans. Does it bother me? Not really, it's just human nature like another poster said. The same happens to the foreigners over in China or any other country.If you truly feel like this country is your home, then it will always be hard when you come across folks like that (again, I'm suprised that you haven't already encountered this before). To me, it's just easier to accept the fact that this isn't my home, just a place to work and make some money. You can never change people's opinions, just ask the average black man in America. All you can change is yourself and your perspective on things.
Well congrats on the wedding man. Wishing you the best!
RyanVM - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
I feel for you Anand,but I think it's a bit of a waste of time getting caught up over something stupid a drunken moron said. Seriously, you just got married! Go make love to your wife or something :PWishing you the best of luck in the future and much love!
Anonymous - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
/starting a new religion: "Morality and Logic." Feel free to make your own, the water is quite nice.WizzBall - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
I believe that the root of the problem in the western or middle-east societies is one very common to both - lack of proper education.When all people will get a proper education (never say never :) then all these problems will be solved.
The value of a man lies beyond its skin color or religious affiliation, that's a lesson most of us still have to learn - not in school, not in university but at home. That's where it all starts.
Yes, Anand did the right thing but let it be known to all of you that even in an academic environment where I live these days, more than once I did hear people reffering to the "f#$%in' whites".
While it is no surprise that it goes both ways one can only assume that such attitudes are not always related to how much education a person gets while in school/university.
So if you're waiting for the schools or someone else to make you or your kids better people, than all I can say is good night.
icarus4586 - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
Scapegoatism. It's human nature not to accept the fact that maybe, just maybe it's not a certain whole group of people at fault for everything wrong in the world. People blame Muslims, Jews, Christians, blacks... the list goes on... for anything and everything. It could never be even a small part my problem, it's a vast conspiracy to overthrow the world. Take responsibility, take action to make things better instead of stirring up hate by blaming other people.Wotan - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - link
#61 You don't really get my point and thus your conclusion makes me laugh. Everyone starts talking about how ignorant this guy was...none of you even know the first thing about him. To sit and judge someone while dictating moral policy to others...must be nice.Koing - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Sorry about that MORON. You get guys that are just THAT STUPID in the world. You have the really great people and ignorant people like that. Just how it works and I don't think we'll ever change but we can try. But we'll always have the very small minority like that.Koing
SLT - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Congrats, Anand, and don't let the morons get you down. As far as the 3 "western" majors go, you are SO right! Having studied all 3, they are so much more similar than people realize. Come on, put David Duke (KKK) and Osama next to each other and they both will say they are very religious people who believe very firmly that they are doing right and the will of their "God".What's my bias? I personally think all of you have it wrong, I'm a druid! ;-)
"Can't we all just get along?"
Rodney King
You know what they say.... out of the mouths of babes and morons...
Congrats again, Anand, and hold your head high. Regardless of race, creed, or faith, good people are.
SLT
jrphoenix - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Hi Anand,I am sorry you had to go through this. I am an American of European decent and I am a convert to Islam (since 1999). After September 11th my wife (Malaysian and wears the hijab, head covering) was given dirty looks and had some rund comments tossed her way.
We recently moved to Florida and she decided to take off her hijab for the first time for her own protection... there are a lot of ignorant people in the South (NOT all of them, but many racist or just ignorant people).
It is sad to see that at present time it is politically incorrect to make fun of blacks, hispanics, asians, etc... The Muslims (in general) and Arabs (in particular) are the last bastion of an "acceptable" group to discriminate against.
Don't forget what happened and never let it cloud your judgements on people just by their appearance!
James
Erem - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
#51: To actually be a muslim state, it must be a theocracy where the priests are the entities actually making decisions on law, etc. That happens in Iran, but not in Saudi Arabia. In Iran, the high priests have ultimate veto power over law. It also happened in Taliban Afghanistan I believe, but not anymore (unless the Taliban come back, which they might if we do not put focus back on them.)#37: "Believing that your friends are your friends, that they are on your side, and would really put themselves out there for you (a person of another ethnicity) is the very definition of naivety." If you've had problems with your friends of other races not sticking up for you, it is a function of their character not their race. My friends of other races have been there for me in my most vulnerable of times, as I have been for them. I feel sorry that the negligence of your once-friends imparted you with such a jaded view on the nature of friendship.
Anand: I regret so much what you went through, and empathize very much with the feeling. As a 1/2 black 21 year old man in this country, I was recently racially profiled by the police for the first time in my life. I took it lightly then, but now feel anxiety when I see a police car instead of the safety I once did. You're right...it just takes a chip out of your confidence in belonging, and makes it easy to think that your many inclusive friends in this country are the exception, not the rule. Its easy to think, but try not to. I too am trying.
Anonymous - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Anand, sorry to hear abt your encounter. I am an Indian and have lived in the US for 25+ years. I consider the US to be my home (I'm also a U.S. Citizen). I faced a lot of what you went through after Sept 11 and some of it in Silicon Valley where many were bitter that their jobs had gone to India (My job also went to India). SV is the coolest place to live and work and the people there are generally the most decent folks. However the 9/11 tragedy and subsequent job losses brought out the worst in some people. Over time I came to realize that the problem lies not in me, but with the small minority of ignoramuses. Steer clear of these fools, but live your live proudly as a US citizen (better yet, as a GLOBAL citizen). Peace to all of us.David Duvall - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Anand Lal Shimpi,My friends and I try very hard to judge people by their works and not by the color of their skin or the clothing they wear.
I have followed your works on the internet for a very long time. You have done good works and have enlighted our lives. In other words, you have done good works!
I know of no one that thinks anything but good of you. Thank you for enriching our lives.
See, the American melting pot works for the benefit of all people!
Again, thank you Anand.
Sid - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
dear anandi am really sorry for what happened to yo. but i also think that vinnie's company after the marriage support from anandtechies and love from everyone who cares can wipe that memory. yes tolerance is very necessary. without tolerance we will all be back to dark ages. and with all due respect to USA , US politicians have time and again commited acts like the new imperialists which have not endeared them to most countries especially middle east and third world countries. in my view every person should be forced to spend at least 2 years traveeling extensively , mingling with other cultures and religions so that he becomes more tolerant.(sounds a bit far fetched rite but it can be a way) i agree to the point anand raised that essentialy we are not very different but it is the differences which are highlighted by some for their vested interests. i am an indian andi can vouch for the same having traveled through almost entire india that inspite of differences in apperance, language and some customs all indians are essentialy same and i think that is true of the world too. lets not blame muslims , christians, jews , whites , blacks anybody. lets just listen to each other , understand and live in harmony working for progress of mankind
bookster - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
You should have told him that he looked like Osama's sister ;)silthdraeth - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
I almost didn't comment, because I saw so many other people have commented, and I figure they all must be positive. I also figure that some will have said things better than I can say them.But I realize that that thinking is wrong, it is very similar to the school of thought, that goes with "why should I vote, one vote won't matter".
So in breaking free of that, I believe you hit the nail on the head to some degree, it is part ignorance.
Though there are a just as many factors of why people dislike others not like them, as there are different cultures in the world.
I personally do not look favorable upon any religious zealots, nor do I look favorably upon many cultures, even my own. I tend to take a rather critical view of almost everything.
But in dealing with individual people, I make every effort possible to disregard stereotypes, and racial profileing, my views on societies and religions, and see the person.
Try to do the same. And take heart. Being American is just citizenship, its Patriotism, and not by just showing pride for ones country, but by doing all those things you listed. Being kind, and fair, and donating, though not a necessity, for not all of us can, is also a very true mark.
Anonymous - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Drunk Guy - "Dude, seriously, I have a friend named Osama who has a brother that looks kind of like you. My bad. Why are you all tense? Did you just get married or something?"(hopefully that comes out funny and not offensive)
John - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Correction in my second statement, that should be minority and not majority.John - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Very well said, Anand."[...] I think you'll find that out of the 6 billion people on this planet, we're all more alike than it sometimes seems. It's just always easier to point out the few differences than it is to accept the many similarities."
I believe that this statement, combined with the extreme measures that the majority sometimes resorts to in order to "get their way" sums up 99.9+% of the social problems and tragedies that the world faces today.
John
Anonymous - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Anand, I think you are wrong on the Islamic State thing. Afghanisthan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc. are self-declared Islamic states.For example, Pakistan calls itself "Islamic Republic of Pakistan". And there are many more...Anonymous - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Just curious.Why is Iran concidered the only true islamic state?
Why wouldn't Saudi fall under the same classification?
Anand Lal Shimpi - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Some of what I was talking about in my post is sadly even evident here. I'm going to respond to a few of the claims here not out of a desire to attack the posters but out of a desire to help educate as I have a bit of experience and knowledge in this area (not only because of my heritage but I've also studied middle eastern history).1) Islamic countries aren't "against" the Westerners. For starters, there's only one true Islamic state (Iran), the rest of the countries are hardly Islamic. Saying so would be like calling the U.S. a Christian country. The majority of the people in the country may be Muslim, but there's a huge difference between that and being an Islamic state. Last I recalled, sex before marriage was something that was frowned upon in many other religions, not just Islam. And there are many Muslim girls that wear miniskirts but most of them are over here, the culture over there has yet to accept that but I have no doubts that the fashion trends we see here will eventually migrate over there (whether that's a good thing or not).
2) The word Jihad has multiple meanings - and not a single one of them means "holy war." The actions of Al Qaeda have since given the word a very bad rap. There are three types of "jihad" in Islam: jihad of the heart, jihad of the mouth and jihad of the sword, I've listed them in their order of importance (as far as the religion is concerned). Jihad of the heart is basically a self-reflection, where you are supposed to reflect on yourself and try to make yourself a better person in the eyes of God (I believe a similar thing is encouraged in many other faiths). Once that is complete then jihad of the mouth is to spread the word of God and the teachings of the Qua-ran (once again, I believe this is similar to church-goers spreading the teachings of Christ). The final type of jihad is jihad of the sword (loosely translated) where it is a muslim's duty to defend the religion. Jihad of the sword is something that is rarely meant by muslims when they say jihad but it is what Osama Bin Laden and his followers are talking about when they use the word jihad. I'm not sure if there are any equivalents in other religions but I do believe most religions do call for their followers to uphold and defend the religion; how some followers may interpret that will vary obviously.
3) Most countries in the middle east aren't "against" the western countries, however they are very untrusting of the countries. The reason behind this really dates back to WWI and the Ottoman empire. The current map of the middle east was basically decided upon by Europe at the end of WWI. Unfortunately when drawing up the borders in the middle east, the prevailing countries in Europe didn't pay much attention to the cultural and ethnic boundaries in the middle east, instead they grouped people together in order to serve their interests. For example, Iraq was purposefully formed by putting regions of people together that definitely didn't get along and placing a leader in power who wasn't what the people wanted at all, but he was who the Europeans wanted. Imagine what our country would be like if someone combined Canada, Mexico, Cuba and the U.S. together and then appointed a President who none of us elected, agreed with or plain desired. The lack of trust came from a lot of shady deals the Europeans made with the middle easterners, and at this point in history the majority of the middle eastern countries actually *wanted* the United States to step in and take control of their countries. If they had to be occupied by someone, they would have liked to have been the U.S. Winston Churchill's 14 points made a huge impact on the middle east; I won't go into a more detailed description here but needless to say the problems in the middle east aren't all because of religious fanatics (some most definitely are).
4) As far as my mom (being a Muslim) marrying someone who isn't a Muslim, remember that not everyone who adheres to a religion follows every aspect of it (this applies to all religions). But to be honest, I'm not actually sure if the Qua-ran actually states anything about this.
5) I'm not here to critique religions, but I think you'll find that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are much more similar than some of you may think. Don't base your knowledge of any one of those religions on hearsay, take a class or study them impartially and I think you'll find that out of the 6 billion people on this planet, we're all more alike than it sometimes seems. It's just always easier to point out the few differences than it is to accept the many similarities.
6) As far as Muslims condemning terrorism, if you ask most people (regardless of religion) they will condemn the acts of 9/11. I have not met a single person who hasn't. That being said, don't take the actions of a government to reflect the ideals of a people. Just because a government doesn't denounce something right away doesn't mean that the people support it. I know our government does a lot of things that I don't agree with. I think this ends up being one of the biggest causes of problems in inter-cultural relations. The U.S. gave Saddam weapons to fight the Iranians with in the Iran-Iraq war, we supplied weapons to Al Qaeda as well, does that mean that Americans supported Saddam or Bin Laden? No. Don't judge the people by the actions of their government, I know there are a lot of Americans that didn't want to go into Iraq and definitely don't want to be there now - is it fair to judge all Americans by the actions of this government?
Remember that have been many times where the same sort of fear and hatred was prevalent towards another group of people; let's not let history repeat itself - not over something as tragic as 9/11. We need to learn from this, not respond with hatred - especially if you don't truly understand that which you hate. As I said before, there are 6 billion people on this planet and trust me, the 280 million that are in this country are not much different from the rest of the world. After all, it is the rest of the world that made up the people in this country - how could we possibly be all that different?
pooh - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
My goodness, look at all these replies, all the sore feelings and hate. Kind of makes me ill.I thought that clicking on the comments would be a feel-good show of solidarity for Anand, but it looks like it's the end of illusion, the gloves are off, Realpolitik on Anandtech.
GaTech guy was correct. It's a human problem, old as the wind, unsolvable as economic inequality. Anand, my friend, are blessed/cursed with a powerful intellect. You can take a comment made with a half second of effort and go on a tangent of all your insecurities about being an American. There is no need.
In your heart, you know the contribution you have made. Wisdom and time will show that is all the acknowledgement you need. Go forth with a righteous heart, and let your mind be at peace.
Anonymous - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Since when is America the best place in the world.Top ten yes, number 1, probably not. But then again it all comes down to criteria.
John - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Welcome back Anand,It is good to hear that your honeymoon has (largely) been blissful, it should be!
I am sorry that the incident with the drunk happened to the two of you during your honeymoon, or at all for that matter. Why the ignorant few are so vocal I really do not know, but this seems to be an immutable law of society that crosses all "boundries" such as race, religion, etc.
Unfortunately, it is what it is, and it is a part of the world that we live in and not likely to change. That being said, I suppose that the only thing to remember is that it is not really worth worrying over as this individuals words, while disheartening, are still only words and only have the power to hurt you if you let them. Hopefully sharing this incident with the fans of this site (obviously there are quite a few, which should be encouraging to you) has been theraputic for you, and any other "silent sufferers" who may have had similar incidents.
Take care of yourself and enjoy this time as you make the transition to become a married couple. I have to give you some fair warning, just because you are legally married doesn't mean you are "husband and wife" in the truely internal sense, I feel that it takes time and working through the problems that come about for that to happen. After all, since when has signing a paper made all of life's problems solve themselves? But it is definately worth the struggle, and it sounds as if you are already quite a ways down that path.
John
Todd - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Shock, dismay? Reality is, there are racists amongst all races. You will no doubt incounter this many times more. It has nothing to do with you being an "American." Would it be any lesser for a person who was not an American, or paid taxes, or contributed to this and that to have been verbally berated by a drunk?Live your life, don't let others play you like a puppet and your emotions.
Fact is, there will always be people like this.
Can you or I change them? Now, we would all be living in a dream world if you thought we could.
Ahsan Ali - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Pakistan the root of the problem for Muslims? More like its a front line state against terrorism and we here have to put up with a lot of shit from Al Qaida.The Afghan war would have been impossible without Pakistan's support, as well as catching any of the terrorists that Pakistan is hunting down and handing over to the US.
Dont blame your most "effective" ally in the war on terrorism before you know the facts...
Gary - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
hey anand, idiots will always be idiotsif you really wanna feel foreign in america, go to the ghetto by UIC (by your chicago branch), I go there all the time... it REALLY makes you feel foreign, with the hatred, the speaking of a foreign language, all the cultural differences, and so forth
america has it's sub-cultures and you don't belong to the drunken-idiot sub-culture... it's not a big loss (or the white trash sub-culture, racist southerner sub-culture, etc)
#40... the irish potato famine was mid 1800s, not early 1600s, 400 years ago would mean your ancestors founded virginia or were here before then
anyway, we're all missing the point, anand should be busy benchmarking his wife and putting up pics for us
how's her floating point performance? how much faster than stock speed can she run stablely with air cooling? water-cooling? how would you rate her case? does she have any fancy case mods?
your public demands answers!
Brian E. - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Am I the only one that thinks #31 is a little jealous? Got country envy pal?Can only be President if you were born here?
Well, I guess I will just have to be happy Schwarzenegger is govenor. After all it would probably scare the sh!t out of the rest of the planet. Bad enough we have a Texas cowboy for president. Imagine what North Korea or Iran would think if we had the Terminator!!!
Okay how about Anand Lal Shimpi for President?
2016 election of course. Here in America we still got that age discrimination thing going. Sorry Anand, you got to be at least 35 before you can run.
Brian E. - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Reply to #41I guess you must be one of those rabid Hollywood Democrats. Oops, looks like we don't have enough real dirt so we must make some up!
Jesus, try saying something intelligent like you don't like this policy or that policy. You're almost as simple minded as that drunk guy.
There are several other things I would like to make clear before people start bashing on Republicans and equating them with racist.
(I hope Anand is a republican or at least more insightful than you.)
1) Bush isn't ignorant or stupid. (You try talking in front of millions of people and see how easy it is, although I wish he was a little better at it.)
2) Life sucks when you don't have money. Vote republican if you want to keep it in the bank.
3) If you are dirt poor you're more likely to commit crimes. How many people think there would be problems in the middle east if the standard of living was better? (if your economy sucks... blame your leaders, not ours!)
4) Everybody forgets that white, middle class, males have to put up with sh!t talk from other ethnic groups all the time because it is assumed it is okay to insult people "perceived" as being in a more advantageous position. Prejudice is everywhere!
To Anand: I am greatful you chose to utilize your first amendment rights and that you are a fellow citizen of the Republic. Please remember we both live in the best country on Earth. But, it is only through vigilence that we maintain our freedoms.
I hope that my remarks don't sound corny but I want you to realize that all of us experience prejudice at one time or another. But, unlike other countries in the world, Americans made it part of our culture to reject this evil and count all men as equal. There are always ones wanting to take this away from us. Some living in our own country that blow up buildings like McVeigh, others drunk in a bar.
So, it is our duty as Americans to stand up to these men. Be brave. You do not fight alone.
Jim - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Unforunately about 25% of Americans ARE like the guy you encountered. They are called "Republicans". And there is a way to make them go away, vote democrat.Nate - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
I think that you are old enough, not to need a lecture. I'm 22 years old and I have a slightly darker complexion. Now my origins have been mixed with caucasian, scotch irish, black, and cherokee indian (Tiger Woods clone). Now, my economic upbringings have been around upper-middle class whites. With two parents holding masters degrees in mathematics and psychology, this has put, quite an awkward mix into how I see myself. While I see myself as a direct combination of these mixtures, I think classification sometimes puts a negative spin on those people who, well, like to classify.The only constant that I've seen in people is that there are those who really seem interested in the human condition, and those who lack the intellectual capacity. My interest include computer programming and music. I've held these same two interest, since for the most part, they were instilled into me in Elementary school, through my high school years, until the time until today.
My familys history dates back 400 years on American soil when the Irish came over due to the potato famine. In High School, I had the choice of standing up or sitting down while saying the pledge of allegiance every morning. I chose to stand. Repeating this pledge everyday reminded me of my allegiance to this country.
Its these simple facts of every day life that people casually neglect that evolve to the gradual erosion and corruption of American society. I definately do not have all of the answers, but there is one thing that also seems to remain a constant, we grow stronger as we go along.
ksherman - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
hey anand (first blog post!)Glad to see your back! Ive missed you! I am really looking forward to that Mac article you promised... As for what happened, That really sucks. The person whom i consider my best friend is Indian (im white) and I just dont see what the issue is. It must be maturity and being able to accept the fact that in America, We are all different. I still love ya, even though i dont know anything about you (othere than that AT rock!). Theres just too much racisim... But enough of that! Congrats on the union and keep keep those articles coming! (now that you have less time, you will soon become the Yoda of delegation!:D)
PCT - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
I do believe some Americans are rascist but not all of them are. Don't worry about that jack*** that called you a terrorist. You are an American citizen. You did a lot of good things to help America. That damn lower than a civillian person you met will probably not be respected in this country. Anand, you have my respect.Wotan - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
Everyone is different, this is true…but it is the individual’s choice to accept others or not. If everyone was black, people would still pick on other people for some reason whether it be those with big noses or huge feet. Please tell me why it is that people from different ethnic backgrounds seem to (for the most part) live together in a “China town” or “little Italy”? Why is there a “white” part of town and a “black” part of town?There are lots of people that are quite capable to think for themselves and do not need people such as you to dictate moral policy to them because it is popular opinion like rap music. Is it the right or wrong thing to do? Well that depends on who you ask, where they are from, etc.
It is not that they hate those people, they just don’t really want to have to be nice because society say’s so. If you think that so called “racism” is dying and will be gone soon; you are sadly mistaken. Call it what you want, tell me how stupid I am, blah blah blah. You will then be caught up in something that makes no difference to me and is a waste of time. Who the @#$% are any of you to judge, after saying that being prejudiced is wrong? Where the hell do you guy’s get off setting peoples moral compass for them? Believing that your friends are your friends, that they are on your side, and would really put themselves out there for you (a person of another ethnicity) is the very definition of naivety. What people say, and what they think, are two completely different things.
FLiNT - Monday, September 13, 2004 - link
I'm an adult white male who resides in NY.I work about 30 miles from where the towers fell. I left work early that day not knowing what to expect after hearing the Pentagon was also hit. On the way home I stopped at a gas station to fill my tank (just in case I couldn't get any gas later on). The attendant had a full beard and a turban. He looked really scared. After paying him I wished him good luck. He thanked me and shook my hand.
I was concerned for this poor guy. I hope he wasn't hurt by any of the crazy's on the way home that horrible day.
I'll never forget the scared look on his face.
Guys like that drunk you ran into are products of their enviroment as much as anything else. I have always taught my children to treat others the way they treat you and also to treat others the way you want to be treated. It's probably a waste of time to try to change someone like that drunk. What we have to do is educate our children as to the wrongs of racism in any form and hope it sticks. If we ALL teach our children this, hopefully, eventually we can change most or maybe all of human society to accept one another. It's not going to happen in our life times but we have to start with our kids or it will never change. So all of you parents & future parents remember this when some of you are tempted to say something nasty about someones heritage or lifestyle or anything else that makes them different from you in front of your kids. It has to start with us if there is any hope for a change.
Scott - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
Anand,Congrats and welcome back.
Sorry to hear about your incident. I would be mad and resentful. Let me relay my story. My first girlfriend was Japanese/Hawaiian. (Me? atypical blonde, blue eyed American.) At a party, some idiot says to me (not knowing my girlfriend) -- "All Spics and Japs should go home!!" (spics/hispanic, Japs/Japanese person) I was 16 and devestated.
While I can't image your feelings, I do know that I was utterly offended, outraged, angry. However for you, as others have pointed out, this guy was a drunk idiot who does not represent America. Sounds like a redneck.
You are welcome here, your home is here, don't forget that. Oh yes, you were born here :)
Thanks
(I agree with your point on "education..." it's needed everywhere.)
GL - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
The breadth of ignorance is indeed disheartening. In my opinion, this issue has three states: intolerance, tolerance and acceptance. Prior to 9/11, I think many optimists would have painted the United States as a land of acceptance where people of different religions, races and beliefs would accept their differences insofar as they did not interfere with the common good. In fact, the rhetoric of such optimists would probably have spoken about how the United States was strong because of its diversity. I think it would be safe to say that the U.S. is not a land of acceptance now (I don't think there are any places in this world where there is true acceptance). However, the United States is a land of tolerance. With few exceptions will you ever find yourself in harms way in America because of your religion, race or beliefs. You may be heckled; you may be mocked; you might be passed over for a job; you might be made to feel like an outcast. But people will by and large tolerate your existence, even in their own backyard.As terrible as this sounds, look at it in a positive light. A tolerant society learns to live together, and living together usually brings about true acceptance. It is important to remain ever vigilant that the situation does not worsen. This is why I think it's great that you've written here about your feelings. It's all too easy for people to dismiss the negative racial profiling that's going on today when they look at it from an abstract, impersonal view. To see somebody who has not only lived, but thrived on the American dream; somebody that many of us readers have literally seen grow up on this web site and know to be a good person, be the victim of such naivete is upsetting.
The first step toward reconciling a problem is admitting one exists in the first place. I'm not American and don't live in the U.S.. But from my perspective, I think as more of the haze from 9/11 clears, Americans are beginning to deal with some of their few unfortunate and misguided collective responses to the attack. I am certain that the increase in explicit racism post 9/11 will be seen for what it is: an ignorant, short-term knee-jerk reaction unbecoming of the foundations on which America was founded. Of this I have no doubt. It's probably not much comfort to you, but if you're worried of the situation worsening, I am of the opinion that it has already bottomed out and will only improve. Let's hope I'm right!
17 - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
I think you were talking to me as I posted those threads. My mom works with quite a few Muslims and when 9/11 happened, they actually had the guts to say that "we are glad this happened to US because they think they are better than others."I don't know about you but I would be pretty mad at such a comment especially when everyone is crying and these people could care less.
I am not a Native American. I am Indian and I am a sikh so it's not like I am biased on certain aspects of the country, BUT I do know that when something happens to a country you are living in (9/11 attacks), the least you can do is join hands with others and support each other regardless their race, color or whatever. Making crude comments like the one I posted above is irrational.
Let's take your comments one-by-one:
1. I could care less if I get the chance to vote or if I want to run for presidency. There are certain things that I don't care about and I know I will never get involved with (namely politics). When I said you get all rights, I meant the "regular" rights so to speak. I am not talking about special privleges that citizens get.
2. I never said you have to be proud to be true American. Like I said, I am an Indian and even if I don't currently live in India I am still proud of my native country. However, that doesn't mean that I should be ignorant of the country I am currently living in. You can make ignorant comments.
3. What do you mean "how can you be proud of a country that you just moved inn?" This is very possible. I am proud that I am a sikh American and I am sure Anand is proud of US or almost every immigrant. Please try to be clear next time.
Will talk to you later.
4.
stnicralisk - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
Anand it is very unfortunate that this happened to you. I have a friend who was born and India and he was indirectly harassed after 9/11 (even though for starters India != Afghanistan and they hate each other politically speaking.)Racism isnt something that only you have to put up with though it is everywhere. I am white and I have experienced it as well. I went to a school that was about 40% african american and I have been called names etc and it made me feel unpleasant. I also went to a school in an area that was 90% african american and that was much worse.
I can understand where you are coming from and I believe you are handling it very well because for the most part you are surrounded by people (likely higher than 90% of the population around you) who have a different skin color and therefor may consider themselves the norm and you different.
The question is what can we do about this and unfortunately while there has been some [emphasis]slow[/e] but steady progress in terms of eliminating racism against african americans... I am not sure this can be said about racism against people of other origins.
Jalf - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
Yuck, it's scary to see that even people posting here can be as ignorant as anyone.#7:
You don't gain all rights the natives have, just by setting foot in the US. Far from it. Just to pick an example, you have to be born there to become president. ;)
And honestly, it sickens me when people, on this thread or elsewhere, feels that you have to be "proud" of America to be a true american. How can you be "proud" of a country you just happened to be born in? Or one you decided to move to? Did *you* make the country what it is today? Or should you just consider yourself lucky to live there?
That's one of the reasons Americans are seen as arrogant by the rest of the world. The way a lot of americans assume they're better than everyone else. Not because of what they themselves have achieved, but because of where they were born, or where they currently live.
#17:
Saying that muslims are a problem because they "can't handle" western culture is a bit of a double-edged sword. That statement could just as well apply to you. You obviously can't handle muslim cultures either.
About Hameed's original comment, I read it like he's glad that this happened to Anand, not that he's glad 9/11 happened.
Whatever he meant, he's still got a very good point. 3000 innocents died on 9/11, but lets not forget about the 13000 civilians killed in Iraq, in a so-called "war on terrorism". That's just as tragic. Their lives are just as important as american ones.
#24: That isn't specific for islam. Dedicated christians won't marry people of other religions either. On the other hand, more relaxed muslims, or christians, or any other religion, don't have a problem with marrying people belonging to another religion. By calling Islam backwards because of something that applies just as much to christianity, you're really just flaunting your ignorance.
About muslim countries not denouncing terrorism? You do know that the US is housing an awful lot of ex-terrorists, right? Again, I don't think muslim countries are more of a problem than the US, or any other western country. Many muslim countries *did* denounce 9/11 immediately.
Again, I think it's really sad to see that even here, on a site that I believe is read by intelligent, and better informed people than most, one a site run by someone who actually *knows* both american and muslim cultures first hand, there's still so many people posting without even realizing how ignorant their posts are, who believes that to be truly american, you have to be proud of your country, and you can under no circumstances disagree with the country's course of action. Who believes that it's all "Their" fault, because "WE" can't be wrong.
Let's just consider this, shall we?
Anand makes a post saying how stupid it is that some people judge others based on something as ridiculous as their skin color. Then that thread turns into a discussion of how islam is backwards, how muslims don't seem to be against terrorism.
That sounds very much like what Anand just pointed out. Shallow, ignorant people who judge others based on their color of skin or on their religion, nationality or culture, which they know nothing about.
I expected better from a place like this. I expected, like someone said above, that the average intelligence in this industry was higher...
Anonymous - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
#28: Yeah, Muslims are too brotherly it seems.Anonymous - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
Anand. If you don't hurry up and write some Mac related articles, I'm going to call the INS and have you deported.Anonymous - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
one big problem muslims around the world is that although they are not contributing to the terrorism, they do not denounce it nearly as much as they should. After 9/11 The White House should not have had to go ask/pay muslim countries to denounce the attacks, those countries should have been the first in line to denounce them.Anonymous - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
#25: I agree with you. It makes them seem like they don't care.ProviaFan - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
Put this in perspective: according to the Bible, Christians are not supposed to marry non-Christians. Obiously not everyone follows that, but it is stated in relatively plain English (just don't read an ancient translation).Bill - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
More Muslims need to speak up and condemn terrorism. Terrorism is wrong, and the Muslim community is too quite.Respectfully,
Bill
17 - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
How come Muslim men can marry women from other religion while Muslim women can't? Isn't this backwards? Shouldn't Muslim women get the same rights? OR is it that Muslim women are look upon as property rather than human beings?The last time I checked Love was supposed to be a sacred thing with feelings and I think people should be able to marry people from other religion if they love each other.
I know two couples - one is Hindu and one is Muslim who married each other. Guess what they get? They are not accepted by their Muslim community or Hindu community. People frown on them when they realize that they belong to different religions. So now they have a seperate "club" for Hindu-Muslim couples. And this is all happening in the U.S. It is just stupid that you are in such an advanced country, but are so backwards in your thinking.
I am not trying offend anyone, but I think Islam has to be one of the backwards and irrational religions out there.
Anonymous - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
It is sad to see people here (in a tech forum)who think that religion can dictate who can marry whom. In my country I have seen many inter-religion marriages. Sadly the views by #5 and #19 only reinforce the common conception about intolerence of a certain religion. I have not read the Quran but I am sure that the original sacred text do not have such things in it and it is the preachers who have introduced these silly notions into that religion.Suraj Bhati - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
Anand I am an Indian I see nonissues rising to national communal issues on basis of someone from one community did some wrong and somebody commented about that ignorantly.As everybody see here no 5 no 19 have concerns about a muslim girl marrying a nonmuslim, I belong to community in India which is three religions i.e. Muslim, Hindu and Sikhs and share common blood relations in past and still i see many Hindu and Sikh arrange marriges on basis of caste not religion.
Much bigger question is majority of US citizen should remain cosmopolitan in their line of thinking about people's personnel life. And I think thats still true.
I hope there are much many people who have more interest in articles about computers at Anandtech like me.
xype - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
For all america is, it also has a lot of uneducated, stupid and ignorant people who can't even write properly and will be the first to wave the amercan flag and point at people crying "OMG! TERRARISTS!!11".I really think you put too much faith in the people around you. You have been lucky to work in an industry where the average intelligence is considered higher than in other "industries". But the US has quite a big population living at the lower end of the middle class and those are the people who will use any excuse to make themselves feel better - and right now, it's all about being american, freedom and fighting terrorists.
So, yah, you can expect more of that if the US economy gets worse and people will look for ways to release their negative energy.
And I'm not bashing americans here, it's the same behaviour pattern that was used by Adolf to great effect against the jews. You just need to keep you eyes open and know when to move on and move away if things start getting really bad one day. Screw loving your country - because your country doesn't love you.
And where's the Mac article?
Bernie - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
Hi Anand,Life is too short to live with hatred in your heart. Pity to stupid idiot that wastes the precious little time he has on God's green earth with hate and ignorance. Your have a rich live ahead of you. Best wishes for a happy forever to you and your dear wife. It seems so strange hearing that you are married. It seems only yesterday that you were a teen with a hardware web page.
As a second generation American with a mixed religious background It has been my experience that the measure of a person is the good they bestow on their fellow man and the idea that there is a greater power than any individual. All else is trivial.
Forget that numbskull and have a good time.
sheik124 - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
lmao 18, down with musharraf!i am a muslim and completly agree with all this, its just not right and not a part of our belief to go and blow up and maim people. and i'm not trying to be rude or anything, but what 5 said puzzles me, as far as i know as well, muslim men can marry from the people of the book (christian and jewish) but muslim women cannot marry non-muslims.
17 - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
Pakistan is the root of problems for all Muslims. They are the home to many terrorist groups and honestly they have created a suspicion in our minds about all Muslims, which is wrong.From the outside, Pakistan acts as if they are really trying to destroy terrorism, but secretly their government is working with terrorists for "JIHAD". Apparently, Muslims need to learn what Jihad means.
Anonymous - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
Hameed: I wasn't taking your words out of context, but you are still being ignorant with your comments. "No I don't live in the US and I don't plan to..." Do you really think someone would want you around in this country with that kind of attitude? I would guess not so in a sense, it is better that you are not living here.On a side note, I agree with everyone. Muslims are the target because many islamic countries are against the westerners. They can't handle the fact that girls wear mini-skirts and people have sex before marriage. For muslims it is evil. As I have said before, I don't care what your beliefs are and it's your choice to follow them, but you can't simply immigrate to US and think like Hameed.
john - Sunday, September 12, 2004 - link
First congrats. I am a American too. We think German because of our last name but my relatives came here in the early 1700 from England. But I grew up in California & NY. The 2 states which have people from everywhere.Cause I thought the fighters in Afganistan were Freedom Fighter. Rambo even fought with them.
First we all know the media needs to watch how they word things.
I think its the media is partly to blame they call refer to Al-Qa'ida as a terrorist group.
Tim McVeigh is rarely called a terrorist.
In WWII we sent people of Japan decent to camps. Even if they were 4th generation born in the US.
We labeled them as sub-human. While the real monsters were in Germany. I know of the crimes Japan commited during WWII my grandfather was a survivor of The Battan Death March.
Since there was no WMD and no link to terrorists in Iraq. We are given the excuse the people are better off without Sadam because he was EVIL.
I have always been proud to call myself a American till I saw the prison abuse.
I am a huge Ernest Hemingway fan and I went to Cuba. Had to fly from Mexico. Bush accused Cuba of being a evil nation of dealing in Sex Slavery. I didn't see any sign of prositution. I was there for a month. I see prostitution everywhere in California and its legal in Nevada. Cuba had a lower standard of living but it was not poor. Everyone was real friendly very little crime. Beaches were kick butt. Unlike Jamacia were if you leave the resort area you have a good chance you wont come back.
smgoh - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
Hi Anand,Thank you for taking your time to write such a poignant piece. It's a great reminder for everyone we should be open-minded, and see past the stereo-typical mindset our society, at times, imposes on us.
Regards,
Min Goh
egarc - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
Anand,Welcome back and I'm happy you have started your new life with the your best day ever.
Regarding the Muslim issue, I believe most people don't think all Muslims are extremists. It is unfortunate morons like the one you met exist. They have their own brand of evil.
That said, it is true that almost all terrorists are Muslim. The Muslim community has a very difficult job ahead if they want to differentiate themselves from the radical extremists. The fact of the matter is that the effort will have to come from within the Muslim community. Otherwise, the stereotyping will just get worse.
Here is an example of that effort.
http://freemuslims.org/news/article.php?article=14...
GhandiInstinct - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
We need to stop thinking about where we live, and what we are apart of. Religion, country, heritage, exc..We are human beings. A species that is trying to survive whithin it's enviornment. And we do what we must to survive. Most peoples brains haven't evolved normaly into the adult years because of their enviornments.
That drunk Anand, probably had divorced parents, an abusive, alcoholic father. And didn't go to school.
Sadly, he is one of millions in this country. And I don't blame him. It's how he was raised.
It's important for us to be good parents. To raise our children with the right morals and values to further our species in development.
This country is full of ignorant people. People who would vote for a guy that fits their image as a president rather than a guy that fits Americas and the worlds needs, as a president.
To me, it's not a suprise that drunk said that. And I would personally hand that guy a book rather than take to my head what his dense mind gives thought to.
P.S. Aside from all life mumbo-jumbo, if you need input on what to review next. I'd like to see the socket 939 mobos and cpus, and the future of these parts.
Anonymous - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
Anand I'm sorry to hear that, that ignorant man you met has put a damper on what should one of the most happiest times of your lives. As you live in America and are a citizen i'm sure that you've also met many more people here that treat all people equal too. Please do not let one man's ignorance reflect on your friends and life that you have spent in the US. Everyday you live your life freely and proudly as a citizen of the US you are proving all those that would be prejudice of you wrong.I would also like to note that it's true many people in other countries have a HUGE bias against America. It almost seems anything the US does can be skewed to be against them. I am sad to say some of my best friends from other countries have told me some of the most strangest things about the US usually read or heard from their media. Often I tell them.. Well I am American?? do you feel that I am this way too? While they just reply that i'm different.
I'm sorry to say I'm not different. I'm American and I'm proud of it and would die defending everyone who lives here.
rob smith - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
sorry to hear you got married, now we get less time for reviews and columns :( as for the idiot you ran into, you shouldve kicked his ass!Hameed - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
@Anon, No I don't live in the US and I don't plan to, and please don't take my words out of context.Anonymous - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
#8: He has contributed to the death toll of people who died because of excessive drinking. We can't say he hasn't contributed to anything. LOLJake - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
This is truly a great country, it just has a few too many idiots that wish to express their own stupidity. I know I'm not alone when I say that I'm sorry for his remark to you.Enjoy your marriage and enjoy living here, its your country too. Don't let anyone take away your happiness, you deserve to be very happy.
Again, I'm sorry for that person and what he said to you. 99% of the Americans do not feel that way toward you, I guaranty it.
I visit this site all the time, you've taught me a lot and also helped me give advise to others. You should smile proudly for what you've done for all of us. I wonder what THAT guy has contibuted?
Anonymous - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
#5 Hameed: It's ignorant people like you who cause trouble in U.S. (indirectly). I don't know if you are living in the US or not, but if you are then with that kind of attitude you are likely to annoy some people.I am a Sikh with US Citizenship. Heck, it would matter if I have a citizenship or not, because once I landed foot in the land of freedom, I automatically gained all the rights and priveleges that the natives of this country have.
You have to feel part of this country to be accepted by everyone. If you are going to lead your life preaching about your religion, which is not bad, and ignore what happens to the US and then say "I am glad this happened to you," you are obviously going to be isolated. You have to show pride for US, you have to cry for US, you have to laugh for US. This is how you get accepted.
If you are laughing while everyone is crying on Sept. 11, I am sure people will hate you and quite honestly, you can't blame them.
I am not saying that you should quit following your religious beliefs or your ignore your thoughts, but at least don't be negative towards your home (assuming that you are currently residing in US).
Anonymous - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
That was rather stupid to say the least. What he said to you was nothing, but I understand the frustration you go through. There have been quite a few hate crimes noted in states like New York and Washington D.C. Some idiots went into Muslim Mosques (Churches) and open fired. Some people even targetted Sikhs who lived in New York, California, and Washington (Sikhs have beards and they wear Turbans like Middle Easterners, but they are not Muslims).Not to mention the fact that even the government ignored some of these hate crimes. Some Sikhs and Muslims were forced to strip to their underwears in the middle of the street in New York by FBI. Some Sikhs were arrested and were under questioning for six months in jail for no apparent reason. Another sikh NYPD Officer was fired because he wore a Turban and had beard, while his brother was promoted to a Liutenant in NYPD because he had cut his hair.
I think some people have a hard time
understanding that just because someone is a Muslim or has a beard and wears a Turban doesn't make him "Osama's brother" or part of a Terrorist group. Eventually the emotions will settle, but every year around Sept. 11th, these emotions will re-emerge, which is quite sad.
Like many people said, ignore these ignorant people. You are successful, you are happy, you are married, you are leading an ideal life. Be happy and don't stress yourself. You belong here like the rest of us. :)
Hameed - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
I am NOT an American. No really, I am not. I am an Arabic Muslim. Does that make me any less than anyone else? Does that make me a terrorist? Many people espicially Americans believe so it seems.In a way I am happy that this happened to you and you are talking about it, may be this will help more people realize that stereotyping is just wrong.
While you guys remember sep 11, just remember that while a thousands of americans died that day hundreds of thousands have died and still dying in the "war against terrorisim" how many of them really had anything to do with terrorisim?
BTW Anand, when you said "My mom is a muslim" I assume your father isn't? How could they get married then?
Ecmaster76 - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
I am currently taking CompE courses at Georgia Tech. At Tech we have a very large population of Muslim from abroad as well as other foreign students. I know a few and they are all pretty cool.What you encountered is not an American problem. It is a human problem. In a way, the guy who said that to you is a lot like the terrorists (or a school bully). He is angry and hateful; condemning without even really knowing. People find it all too easy to dehuminize others by thinking of them in terms of groups/races/religions or characteristics that make them different, instead of them as the individuals that they are. When you no longer think of other people in human terms, all manner of horrible acts seem justified. From tormenting someone constantly to killing it is all the result of the same thing.
It is a problem that occurs all over the world. Many people in other countries do judge America, not by the ones you named, but by our leaders and other famous people. They think of Americans as gun crazy cowboys or greedy capitalist pigs or whatever.
I'm sorry you went through that. But don't take it personally or as a sign that America is going down the $#!++er.
Adam K. - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
That is just the way things balance out sometimes. You are having the most enjoyable days of your life and some complete nincompoop has to come along and screw it up with his nonsense. Don't sweat it, Anand.Bill F - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
Anand,First, congratulations on your wedding. Welcome back. I'm sure you have a lot of catching up to do so I don't expect tons of articles right away, but I hope you can get back in the mix soon.
I won't say anything to make you feel unwelcome, but I can't say the same for everyone. I hope you can find a way to look past any ignorant remarks that others may make. Who knows what was going on the mind of that drunk? He was WAY out of line. I think you handled it the right way - I think I would have been tempted to hand him his head.
I have a co-worker who was born in Lebanon (a christian - if it matters), and he travels back every year. His comments about the mid-east are about the same as yours. There are hard-liners there, as there are here, but most people are trying to interpret the rules of their religion in a way that allow them to live a simple, decent life. They do this because, in their hearts, most people are decent and want to be treated that way.
I live about 5 miles west of NYC, and from my office in Rutherford, NJ I saw both towers fall. I lost several former co-workers and schoolmates that day, and I haven't been back to Ground Zero since - though I do get into the city often. I am going back to GZ today. I'll take the Path train right into the pit (unless they have it closed today) and then walk uptown to meet some friends and hang in Central Park - the weather should be nice this evening. (It's a fairly long walk from GZ to CP, and it will give me a chance to reflect on the day).
Bill
Greg - Saturday, September 11, 2004 - link
That's not cool. Just pity his ignorance and enjoy your honeymoon. Most of the rest of us out here are sane and don't make such assumptions. You were born here and have just as much of a stake in America as any of the rest of us do, so just remember that opinions are like a__holes and everybody has one. Some just stink more than others.