I have to say that Anand is both correct and incorrect in his price estimates. I've only started using macs in the last 6 months before which I was a die hard "build it yourself" pc user (I never owned a pre-built machine except my laptop...not even my first ever computer).
Anand was correct in his judgement that if you build your own pc and have no need for ultra quite, top quality cases or other frills you can build a comparably fast PC for much less.
Anand was incorrect in comparing these two scenarios to begin with. On Anandtech, we constantly see articles for Value Buyer's Guides and High End Buyer's Guides. . .however, the High End Buyer's guide is not summed up with an off-handed "but a comparable system can be built for less if you don't get the . . .". It goes without saying that if you don't get the Lian Li top of the line case, the brand new Nvidia 6800 Ultra and the name brand 600 Watt PSU that you've just shaved about a thousand dollars of the price of your "high end pc".
Unfortunately, we can't mix and match with apple hardware. However, it makes no more sense to make price point statements based on this in the same way that we would compare two options in the same class than it would to review a Ferrari and than conclude with: "But a toyota has four wheels and a trunk and only goes for $12,000". . .such claims are 100% correct and 100% off base.
As a clarification, most good Mac apps are "application bundles", which is a folder that the operating system treats as a file. This allows all the support files for the application to be contained inside it (you can see this by right clicking and choosing show package contents). There are a few other files (prefs at such), but they're created by the application when it launches for the first time. I've never heard of an application overriding the drag functionality in the way Anand describes.
The 'installing' operation that Anand described is apparently unique to MS Office 2004.
The two standard ways to install on Mac OS X are copy the executable to where you want it, normally into the Applications folder but you can put it wherever you want, and using a normal installer program. The second method isn't (and shouldn't be) used very often because such installer programs are what take control away from the user. Moving executables around is much better.
(posting here because I don't feel like registering)
I enjoyed reading the mac article and mostly agree with everything it says (as a Mac user who avoids Windows whenever possible)
****************
"Furthermore, finding out the correct key to hit to select the option that you want [from a dialog box] is most definitely a guessing game, as there are no underlined characters or anything indicating what key to hit. Given OS X's strong support for keyboard shortcuts, this shortcoming (no pun intended) is puzzling."
Some Classic version of the Mac OS changed the button labels for dialogs to the key equivalents when you pressed the command key. Apple has definitely taken a few steps backwards by 'forgetting' to include little features from the Classic versions of the OS. And there's basically no reason for many of the omissions.
***************
"Well, to install an application, you simply drag the application's installer to any folder on your hard drive and it's "installed". Doing so actually triggers a number of files to be copied to various places on your drive, but the fact that you are separated from that process, it really made me feel like I wasn't in control of my system."
That seems and odd characterization of my experiences. I would say that after downloading and uncompressing (or putting the CD in or whatever) you just drag the application (or the directory with the app and it's files) to where you want it rather than dragging an 'installer' which causes many files to be copied to various places around the hard drive. Often all the files needed are self contained in the app and there's no application directory (look up 'Mac OS X Bundles') and you don't have to worry about anything else.
Uninstalling is the similar, drag the app to the trash and delete it. If you want you can also find the preference file and other similar files in standard places in order to delete any sign that the app was ever on your drive.
***********
"the task switcher is activated by holding down the Command key and hitting "tab" to sequence through all of the open applications. Releasing Command activates the selected application and everything continues as it would under Windows."
For people who use the mouse a bit more it's nice that once the task switcher has been activated the mouse cursor can be used to select items from it. That's much faster than selected the app from the keyboard. Once an app is selected with the mouse clicking it will then switch. command-h and command-q work the same whether you select apps by repeatedly hitting command-tab or by moving the mouse.
Hey Anand. Can you find out what the deal is with Nvidia and ATI not shipping enough of the good stuff? Here in Aotearoa, 6800GT cards are literally impossible to buy. There is simply no stock. And worse, no one knows when or if new stock will arrive. What's the deal? Thanks buddy.
#21: AnandTech has just started their Mac section so there is not anything in it. No matter what you do, it will not have any articles in that section unless Anand writes them.
I've been reading AnandTech for some time now, and I don't see any place where any of these Mac articles are supposed to be.
There has never been anything in the Macintosh section. Even the membership password doesn't help. Every time I've tried, I've been told that I'm not allowed there.
Are these to be the first, or am I missing something?
"Over my blog hiatus I also brought on a new editor to AnandTech, he's someone that most of you have probably already heard of and he'll be contributing content about once a month."
I know how hard you work AnAnd, but could you please mention some thing about cabling? Such as 40w and 80 wire cables? Not to mention the benifits of S-ATA. :
That's what I'm talking about Anand, getting back to work. Precisely why I said "quit screwin' and start reviewin'"!
"we'd use our Macs even if PCs were twice as fast because of the other benefits to us of the Mac platform"
I have been a Mac user for a LONG time. I started on a Performa 476 with OS 7.1. PCs always sucked to me but I have to give credit to Micro$oft for making XP a very good platorm.
The problem is that for the longest times PCs were "twice as fast" compared to Macs. Even when Apple opened up and allowed Mac clones (remember that) it still didn't help the HUGE difference in price/performance when compared to the PC. Macs continue to be more for less. I have up trying to keep up with the Mac "Jones'". It really comes down to preference and price more than anything I suppose.
Personally I'd like seeing come cross-platform benchies including Linux. I think it would be very informative.
#11: AnandTech and all publications get their products directly from companies so I don't think ATi or Nvidia will try to send a tricked out version for the hype purposes because once the products hit the retail channel and users find out that Nvidia and ATi sent out "tricked versions" of the products, they will have a serious blow to their reputation.
So I think it is safe to assume that AnandTech will not get any special or tricked out products from either companies.
yeah, Mac users really dont care that much about speed vs. PC's. That what the PC users care about.
People buy Macs becuase of ease of use, ease of integration of new hardware with old, the software, and the style. I'd venture to guess the majority the Mac desktops dont even have one single FPS shooter game on them. Meaningless. Typical Mac user would think that was wasting time when they could be doing something useful.
I use both (G5 for everything but games, 3000+ AMD for games ) so I delve into both worlds, but Pick one to sell and it would be the PC, hands down.
OS X / Apple hardware is the best....if I want gaming I fire up the AMD.
Most Mac users don't care too much about cross-platform benchmarks; we'd use our Macs even if PCs were twice as fast because of the other benefits to us of the Mac platform (stability, security, consistency, AppleScript, iLife apps, UNIX frameworks & tools, etc.).
I think a more useful series of Mac articles would be based on tools that we use: word processors, bitmapped graphics software, vector/PostScript drawing software, font managers, scanners, printers, note-taking software, web browsers, text editors, UPS options, input devices, video cards, etc.).
Some useful Mac benchmark/comparison articles, IMHO, would be: iBook/PowerBook vs. iMac G5 vs. PowerMac G5 (with office apps, graphics apps, web development apps, C/C++ software development tools, games, etc.), storage interface options (IDE vs. S-ATA vs Firewire 400 vs. Firewire 800 vs. USB 2.0 vs. SCSI), LCD vs. CRT displays (color accuracy, color gamut coverage, brightness, contrast, etc. with an eye on specific areas like graphics work, text editing, general office use, and perhaps gaming), etc..
How about some Mac vs. PC benchmarks? The web is full of many biased comparisons with highly questionable test methodology. An anandtech set of benchmarks would be much more believable.
Seeing you are in Branford, if you have any offtime and want a non-tech diversion (or actually tech from a century ago), check out the Shore Line Trolley Museum (East Haven) which runs the historical Branford Electric Railway ... See http://www.bera.org/main.htm for more info. My inlaws (now deceased) used to live on the CT shore and we and our kids had a great time there. Nice excursion!
Your lab is in Branford? Cool. That's like 10 minutes from me. I used to live in East Haven (Branford's arch rival) but moved to Hamden about a year ago...
I'm looking forward to the new Mac articles and the hard drive, um, whatever you'll call them. Don't get too caught up in "work" though and forget to spend quality time with your wife (somehow I don't think you'll need to be reminded). ;)
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30 Comments
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James - Monday, October 18, 2004 - link
I have to say that Anand is both correct and incorrect in his price estimates. I've only started using macs in the last 6 months before which I was a die hard "build it yourself" pc user (I never owned a pre-built machine except my laptop...not even my first ever computer).Anand was correct in his judgement that if you build your own pc and have no need for ultra quite, top quality cases or other frills you can build a comparably fast PC for much less.
Anand was incorrect in comparing these two scenarios to begin with. On Anandtech, we constantly see articles for Value Buyer's Guides and High End Buyer's Guides. . .however, the High End Buyer's guide is not summed up with an off-handed "but a comparable system can be built for less if you don't get the . . .". It goes without saying that if you don't get the Lian Li top of the line case, the brand new Nvidia 6800 Ultra and the name brand 600 Watt PSU that you've just shaved about a thousand dollars of the price of your "high end pc".
Unfortunately, we can't mix and match with apple hardware. However, it makes no more sense to make price point statements based on this in the same way that we would compare two options in the same class than it would to review a Ferrari and than conclude with: "But a toyota has four wheels and a trunk and only goes for $12,000". . .such claims are 100% correct and 100% off base.
David Smith - Saturday, October 9, 2004 - link
As a clarification, most good Mac apps are "application bundles", which is a folder that the operating system treats as a file. This allows all the support files for the application to be contained inside it (you can see this by right clicking and choosing show package contents). There are a few other files (prefs at such), but they're created by the application when it launches for the first time. I've never heard of an application overriding the drag functionality in the way Anand describes.Anonymous - Saturday, October 9, 2004 - link
The 'installing' operation that Anand described is apparently unique to MS Office 2004.The two standard ways to install on Mac OS X are copy the executable to where you want it, normally into the Applications folder but you can put it wherever you want, and using a normal installer program. The second method isn't (and shouldn't be) used very often because such installer programs are what take control away from the user. Moving executables around is much better.
melgross - Saturday, October 9, 2004 - link
I thought so. It just sounded as though there were some.Thanks.
Anonymous - Friday, October 8, 2004 - link
(posting here because I don't feel like registering)I enjoyed reading the mac article and mostly agree with everything it says (as a Mac user who avoids Windows whenever possible)
****************
"Furthermore, finding out the correct key to hit to select the option that you want [from a dialog box] is most definitely a guessing game, as there are no underlined characters or anything indicating what key to hit. Given OS X's strong support for keyboard shortcuts, this shortcoming (no pun intended) is puzzling."
Some Classic version of the Mac OS changed the button labels for dialogs to the key equivalents when you pressed the command key. Apple has definitely taken a few steps backwards by 'forgetting' to include little features from the Classic versions of the OS. And there's basically no reason for many of the omissions.
***************
"Well, to install an application, you simply drag the application's installer to any folder on your hard drive and it's "installed". Doing so actually triggers a number of files to be copied to various places on your drive, but the fact that you are separated from that process, it really made me feel like I wasn't in control of my system."
That seems and odd characterization of my experiences. I would say that after downloading and uncompressing (or putting the CD in or whatever) you just drag the application (or the directory with the app and it's files) to where you want it rather than dragging an 'installer' which causes many files to be copied to various places around the hard drive. Often all the files needed are self contained in the app and there's no application directory (look up 'Mac OS X Bundles') and you don't have to worry about anything else.
Uninstalling is the similar, drag the app to the trash and delete it. If you want you can also find the preference file and other similar files in standard places in order to delete any sign that the app was ever on your drive.
***********
"the task switcher is activated by holding down the Command key and hitting "tab" to sequence through all of the open applications. Releasing Command activates the selected application and everything continues as it would under Windows."
For people who use the mouse a bit more it's nice that once the task switcher has been activated the mouse cursor can be used to select items from it. That's much faster than selected the app from the keyboard. Once an app is selected with the mouse clicking it will then switch. command-h and command-q work the same whether you select apps by repeatedly hitting command-tab or by moving the mouse.
Lucian - Friday, October 8, 2004 - link
Next time you decide to take screenshots, try Ambrosia's Snapz Pro X (www.ambrosiasw.com). It's a sweet program.Anonymous - Friday, October 8, 2004 - link
Hey Anand. Can you find out what the deal is with Nvidia and ATI not shipping enough of the good stuff? Here in Aotearoa, 6800GT cards are literally impossible to buy. There is simply no stock. And worse, no one knows when or if new stock will arrive. What's the deal? Thanks buddy.Anonymous - Thursday, October 7, 2004 - link
#21: AnandTech has just started their Mac section so there is not anything in it. No matter what you do, it will not have any articles in that section unless Anand writes them.Missing? - Thursday, October 7, 2004 - link
Yes, you're missing the secret handshake and the "I'm an American too" loathing.melgross - Thursday, October 7, 2004 - link
I've been reading AnandTech for some time now, and I don't see any place where any of these Mac articles are supposed to be.There has never been anything in the Macintosh section. Even the membership password doesn't help. Every time I've tried, I've been told that I'm not allowed there.
Are these to be the first, or am I missing something?
Joe - Thursday, October 7, 2004 - link
Reports are out yesterday that Nvida is now shipping the 6800. Mac buyers are reporting confirmation of PowerMac shipments with the 6800klah - Tuesday, October 5, 2004 - link
"Let me get this right. You got Van Smith? THE VAN SMITH? Excuse me while I clean up, I just shat myself."That ";)" was a wink. I was joking. Not that it would be a bad idea...
Anonymous - Tuesday, October 5, 2004 - link
#17: Calm down. He hasn't confirmed anything.WHOA - Tuesday, October 5, 2004 - link
Let me get this right. You got Van Smith? THE VAN SMITH? Excuse me while I clean up, I just shat myself.klah - Tuesday, October 5, 2004 - link
"Over my blog hiatus I also brought on a new editor to AnandTech, he's someone that most of you have probably already heard of and he'll be contributing content about once a month."Van Smith! ;)
Tab - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
I know how hard you work AnAnd, but could you please mention some thing about cabling? Such as 40w and 80 wire cables? Not to mention the benifits of S-ATA. :Rahim Z. - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
Really, WOW thats going to be a lot of work, but im interested more in the security and networking software. so when u get to that please inform me.Glad to hear - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
That's what I'm talking about Anand, getting back to work. Precisely why I said "quit screwin' and start reviewin'"!"we'd use our Macs even if PCs were twice as fast because of the other benefits to us of the Mac platform"
I have been a Mac user for a LONG time. I started on a Performa 476 with OS 7.1. PCs always sucked to me but I have to give credit to Micro$oft for making XP a very good platorm.
The problem is that for the longest times PCs were "twice as fast" compared to Macs. Even when Apple opened up and allowed Mac clones (remember that) it still didn't help the HUGE difference in price/performance when compared to the PC. Macs continue to be more for less. I have up trying to keep up with the Mac "Jones'". It really comes down to preference and price more than anything I suppose.
Personally I'd like seeing come cross-platform benchies including Linux. I think it would be very informative.
Anonymous - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
#11: AnandTech and all publications get their products directly from companies so I don't think ATi or Nvidia will try to send a tricked out version for the hype purposes because once the products hit the retail channel and users find out that Nvidia and ATi sent out "tricked versions" of the products, they will have a serious blow to their reputation.So I think it is safe to assume that AnandTech will not get any special or tricked out products from either companies.
GhandiInstinct - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
Anand, is it safe to assume that getting products directly from ATI and Nvidia will give you "tricked out" products rather than standard retail?Tim West - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
yeah, Mac users really dont care that much about speed vs. PC's. That what the PC users care about.People buy Macs becuase of ease of use, ease of integration of new hardware with old, the software, and the style. I'd venture to guess the majority the Mac desktops dont even have one single FPS shooter game on them. Meaningless. Typical Mac user would think that was wasting time when they could be doing something useful.
I use both (G5 for everything but games, 3000+ AMD for games ) so I delve into both worlds, but Pick one to sell and it would be the PC, hands down.
OS X / Apple hardware is the best....if I want gaming I fire up the AMD.
DarylF2@yahoo.com - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
Most Mac users don't care too much about cross-platform benchmarks; we'd use our Macs even if PCs were twice as fast because of the other benefits to us of the Mac platform (stability, security, consistency, AppleScript, iLife apps, UNIX frameworks & tools, etc.).I think a more useful series of Mac articles would be based on tools that we use: word processors, bitmapped graphics software, vector/PostScript drawing software, font managers, scanners, printers, note-taking software, web browsers, text editors, UPS options, input devices, video cards, etc.).
Some useful Mac benchmark/comparison articles, IMHO, would be: iBook/PowerBook vs. iMac G5 vs. PowerMac G5 (with office apps, graphics apps, web development apps, C/C++ software development tools, games, etc.), storage interface options (IDE vs. S-ATA vs Firewire 400 vs. Firewire 800 vs. USB 2.0 vs. SCSI), LCD vs. CRT displays (color accuracy, color gamut coverage, brightness, contrast, etc. with an eye on specific areas like graphics work, text editing, general office use, and perhaps gaming), etc..
Prognathous - Monday, October 4, 2004 - link
How about some Mac vs. PC benchmarks? The web is full of many biased comparisons with highly questionable test methodology. An anandtech set of benchmarks would be much more believable.Prog.
cooldadd - Saturday, October 2, 2004 - link
Seeing you are in Branford, if you have any offtime and want a non-tech diversion (or actually tech from a century ago), check out the Shore Line Trolley Museum (East Haven) which runs the historical Branford Electric Railway ... See http://www.bera.org/main.htm for more info. My inlaws (now deceased) used to live on the CT shore and we and our kids had a great time there. Nice excursion!mikecel79 - Saturday, October 2, 2004 - link
Your lab is in Branford? Cool. That's like 10 minutes from me. I used to live in East Haven (Branford's arch rival) but moved to Hamden about a year ago...Looking forward to the Hard Drive guides.
ViRGE - Saturday, October 2, 2004 - link
Let me guess, you brought Jason on as an editor to continuously put out IT/Server articles?Robert - Saturday, October 2, 2004 - link
Hey,How is it up there vs. NC? The house? etc. Good to see that you're getting some "work" done ;)
ksherman - Saturday, October 2, 2004 - link
sounds wonderfull... Does the Mac GPU roundup include benchies vs PC GPU's?ProviaFan - Saturday, October 2, 2004 - link
I'm looking forward to the new Mac articles and the hard drive, um, whatever you'll call them. Don't get too caught up in "work" though and forget to spend quality time with your wife (somehow I don't think you'll need to be reminded). ;)Anonymous - Friday, October 1, 2004 - link
Wow! You have got busy schedule ahead my friend. Keep up the good work! :)