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  • johnnycanadian - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    With all due respect, "meh". Apple makes packages some nice hardware (and their own SoC designs are beyond reproach) but they've become so disgustingly sloppy with regard to software -- both OS X and Windows -- that I find it difficult to justify using & recommending it for beyond the most simple tasks. Add to that the fact that Win10 is a really great consumer OS and I gotta wonder who's actually buying Apple PCs these days.
  • johnnycanadian - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    "makes and/or packages", even. Proofreading is apparently not a forte of mine.
  • smorebuds - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    "not a forte of mine"

    Neither is your use of cliches.
  • dsumanik - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I been waiting for these updates for long time from apple, and im sorely disappointed. The new trackpad will definitely be the best one on the market for mac now, but id recommend to skip the other two as there are better options out there.

    Why?

    Year old logitech gear is still far superior.

    Logitech k811: has all the features of new mac keyboard, plus backlit keys and can switch between iphone, ipad and mac with a single keypress.

    Logitech MX master, same thing u can switch between laptop/desktop quick, better tracking and infintely better ergonomics (if you are a righty), and still has basic gesture support, plus the uber scroll wheel.

    "redesigned feet" pffffft
  • dsumanik - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    Also like to add, after further investigation the new improved magiuc mouse has its charging port on the BOTTOM of the mouse.. making it impossible to charge and use at the same time. Just wow, that is beyond stupidity. JOBS IS GONNA HULK SMASH FROM THE GRAVE LOL!!!
  • Daniel Egger - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I have no idea what you're talking about, do you? I'd take OS X over Win10 any day; the only reason to use Windows here is the larger game selection. For anything else OS X is a much better OS, for beginners and pros alike. Actually the only thing I really mourn is that the hardware really is at best one step ahead if not even behind the competition; I do like light 17" notebooks with high-performance hardware and a non-glare display is a MUST so I'm going to use my MBP until it falls apart and then I'll probably go hackintosh if Apple doesn't get their act together.
  • extide - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    That's really a matter of opinion. I don't like OSX at all and there are plenty who agree, and that is our opinion too. It's nearly impossible to objectively say one is better than the other.
  • shadarlo - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    As someone who is forced to work with both at work and help other with both, I can say I dramatically prefer Windows. OSX is great until there is a problem, then it's a nightmare. Same for iOS. I have far fewer issues with my Android users than my iOS users and ever since Windows 10, I've spent less time per computer on windows machines than apple machines. The newest OS's from Apple are bogging down the machines more and more... machines that ran great on older OS's are getting to be extremely slow on the new OS's. The inverse is true of the Windows machines. Windows 10 has breathed new life into several borderline replacement worthy machines.
  • Morawka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    for pro's? the file system is locked down, and you have to google all night to figure out how to access the bare directories. Simple things like "properties" are watered down. There is no BIOS or UEFI, there is no upgrade ability on 90% of the hardware, and there is no proper driver support.

    There is nothing pro about OSX. its specifically made for people who dont know much about computers. It's heavily watered down.
  • repoman27 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Wow, so much wrong. OS X is UNIX, nothing about the filesystem is locked down, and all Intel Macs have EFI. The reduced upgradability is the inevitable result of tighter integration, and Apple is much further along in that regard than most other PC OEMs. I'd also argue that while OS X has a more limited gamut of hardware options, the driver situation for supported devices is better than on most other platforms.
  • nerd1 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    EC has rootless option as default, so file system is indeed locked down.
  • repoman27 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Gotcha, I haven't played with El Cap yet. But you can disable / reenable System Integrity Protection with a single command, and it's basically just making what many preach as security best practice the default.
  • tabascosauz - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    It's as simple as adding a few lines to config.plist. It's not a big deal.

    If you can't figure that out with the help of some very comprehensive guides, you really shouldn't be commenting on OS X's versatility or lack thereof.
  • osxandwindows - Monday, October 19, 2015 - link

    disable it then.
    Damn how can people be so ignorant.
  • osxandwindows - Monday, October 19, 2015 - link

    Lol you can easily access the file system.
    Just go computer>drive name.
  • drainplugofideas - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    This is an issue that people get really upset about. As someone that uses both windows 10 and OSX daily, I can see the advantages of each system. Windows is a lot more flexible in different hardware configurations, and unless Apple decided to release a standalone OS (they never will) Windows will always remain the dominant PC OS. With that said, I still prefer OSX for daily use. It just feels faster and more intuitive.
  • jvl - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Okay, nice upgrade. I don't like the need for a lightning cable (don't own an iPhone, don't have one) versus the standard AAs.
    But please: the Magic Mouse 2 is "a worthy upgrade"? That's a joke right? Shelling out this amount of money for a different battery system? What planet do you live on..?

    Price on the new trackpad is also incredible. That's an increase of what, 40-50%? And you praise Apple being..well, I don't actually know.

    Disrupting article, AnandTech, disrupting article...
  • nerd1 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Apple really want to cripple down desktop experience to be consistent with their laptop experience. No thanks. I'd keep using cherry mx keyboard and wired gaming mouse instead.
  • name99 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    So you're unhappy about what exactly?
    Has Apple taken away your ability to use 3rd party keyboards or mice?

    It is obvious to anyone who thinks about it for more than a minute that the trackpad is Apple's equivalent of a touch screen. It gives you the same essential points as a touchscreen BUT
    - without having to move your arm in a way that can be tiring and disruptive
    - with tighter accuracy
    - now with 3D touch

    So Apple is not crippling anything; they're trying to give you the best aspects of the touch UI in a manner that makes sense on the desktop. From that point of view, the cost of the trackpad is no different from the additional cost of a touchscreen, but with the benefits I listed above.

    And as for the cost, give me a break. The Windows world has been making trackpads for 15 years now, and every single one of them is crap. Even the Windows people agree. Every Windows person I know hooks up an external mouse to their laptop. So your choice is apparently
    - buy cheap crap (and accept what you get) or
    - pay real money and in turn get something that actually works properly.
    You're welcome to buy cheap crap; but it's a little silly to insist that everyone else also has to buy the cheap crap even when they would prefer to pay more for something that works well.
  • jimbo2779 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I think rather than him saying that Apple have taken anything away from their competitors he is saying that they have released bad products that look pretty to some but are less comfortable / usable than a lot of the alternatives.

    Stand alone trackpads are crap because they are more limiting than a mouse, pretty much any mouse.

    Next thing you will try and tell me that a trackpad is equivalent to a touch screen, oh you just did and lost all credibility in the process.
  • name99 - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    "Stand alone trackpads are crap because they are more limiting than a mouse, pretty much any mouse"
    This is an exceptionally silly statement. I don't know if you've never used an Apple MagicPad but I consider it far superior to a mouse. When I buy my next iMac, I will absolutely spend the extra $50 to get the trackpad, and will move my current MagicPad (1st gen) down to one of my older computers, thereby replacing the mouse.

    Regarding touch screens, you may think I lack credibility; but you realize that means you also lack credibility... All I am doing is reporting Apple's reasoning (which I happen to agree with, based on experience). But sure, I'll try the random guy on the internet over the company that has a track record of actually testing different UI modalities aggressively...

    <<While Microsoft and others now believe that multi-touch should extend to the desktop display, Apple believes this is dead wrong. “From the ergonomic standpoint we have studied this pretty extensively and we believe that on a desktop scenario where you have a fixed keyboard, having to reach up to do touch interfaces is uncomfortable,” says Schiller. >>
  • jimbo2779 - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    Can you touch a specific point on a display with a single tap on a magicpad? You cannot do that so it absolutely it's not a replacement for a touch screen, it might be all they have in place of a touch screen but is not a good for lots of use cases.

    And there is lots you cannot do with a great trackpad that you can do with almost any mouse.

    One obvious example is gaming, fast scrolling with a free wheel is another. With more time I could come up with plenty more examples but simply using both it is very clear that a trackpad it's no replacement for a real mouse.

    Apple marketing will never change that.
  • robinthakur - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    If you had used a Mac trackpad, you'd know that scrolling is accomplished using two finger gestures, and that's actually more precise than using a mousewheel. Perhaps you're basing your 'experience' on using Windows machines' broken implementations. I doubt that anybody is suggesting that a trackpad (Apple or otherwise) is a good tool for gaming however where the mouse clearly wins.
  • robinthakur - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    Sorry but no, I don't think that's accurate. On paper obviously, a touch screen looks like a much better proposition than a track pad. However, I use a MS Surface Pro 3 as my daily laptop and my Macbook Pro at home. On the Surface, the trackpad is barely usable with only a scroling gesture and this means that you HAVE to either connect up a mouse or use the touchscreen which is (horribly imprecise on such a high res screen for finger input and for things like long touches)

    On the Macbook Pro, the trackpad is the best I've ever used and really does negate the need for a touchscreen for 99% of tasks. It just feels far more intuitive and instinctive with the accurate gesture detection and I'm correspondingly more efficient when using it. If MS could fix the shambolic trackpad on the Surface and make it even 50% as good as Apple's have been for the last 10 years, this would speed Surface adoption no end. Having to reach out and touch a touchscreen in a standard laptop configuration is a recipe for RSI and mucky screens. Nobody I've ever met actually touches a touch screen laptop, they all use the trackpad or a mouse, which tells you how important the feature is for everything other than tablets, which are used in a different, and far more intuitive configuration.
  • nerd1 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I can understand that laptops (small ones) have size constraint but they are god damn DESKTOP peripherals. We have enough desk space to use a good tenkey-ed keyboard with enough travel and tactile feedback, and a proper mouse with wheels and buttons. Why windows user don't prefer trackpad? Because they are inferior and expensive.

    And trackpad is Apple's equivalent of a touch screen? ROTFL. Good luck with your 'productive' device, iPad pro, which only has a touchscreen with fixed angle and no mouse/trackpad support.
  • blackcrayon - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    "Trackpad is the equivalent of a touchscreen"
    And your reply is that the iPad Pro, which features a touch screen, has no trackpad support.
    Expert argument there. I'm not sure you even know what it's like to use a properly made trackpad that's properly supported in the OS with gestures, etc. In any case they're still optional peripherals, I mean why not whine about something that isn't changeable, I'm sure you can if you try.

    And other than for first person games, I think a trackpad is a superior control device for a desktop computer. It's just that Apple makes the best trackpads, and this one should be even better with pressure sensitivity and more surface area.
  • jimbo2779 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    A trackpad can be decent for navigating your way around a UI with swiping gestures and such but physically moving the cursor around is miserable on even a great trackpad.

    A mouse with a scroll wheel (preferably a free wheel) can do pretty much everything a trackpad can do without any of the downsides of having to use one.
  • osxandwindows - Saturday, October 17, 2015 - link

    yeah I like my trackpad for playing games.
  • osxandwindows - Saturday, October 17, 2015 - link

    Lol
    But you said windows users don't need a trackpad.
    lol
  • kamper - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    "I don't like the need for a lightning cable (don't own an iPhone, don't have one) versus the standard AAs."

    To be fair, all 3 components come with such a cable, so you don't have to supply your own. And I'm sure there'd be at least one included with the iMac. Though it would still be better if it was an industry standard like usb-c of course...
  • blackcrayon - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Funny, when the keyboard and magic trackpad came out, one of the most common complaints was that they used AAs and didn't include a built-in rechargeable battery :)
  • lordmocha - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I would have bought this in an instant if it was USB-C, but now that it's lightning I'm having second thoughts. Yes I know, It's only required for charging once a month, but that makes it even more likely the cable will be lost or taken by a family member, I'd much rather it have the industry standard type-c.
  • lordmocha - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    (I meant the keyboard, btw.)
  • III-V - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    You're high as fuck.

    Getting rid of the AA batteries is a fucking godsend. No more "where do we keep the AA batteries?" "I don't know!" "I found the box, but it's empty!" "There's no room in our supply budget!"

    Please do the world a favor and go play in high-speed traffic.
  • Deelron - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Where do we keep the AA batteries? In the same drawer they're always kept in, right next to their recharger that gets used whenever a set is drained and then put back in the same place. It's not exactly rocket science, and I'd rather do a one minute battery swap and continue working wirelessly then to plug into a cradle or cable to keep working (or doing so after working), and I'd prefer to replace rechargeables over time then I would to potentially replace an entire peripheral when it's battery is no longer up to snuff.
  • Morawka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    that lithium battery is gonna wear out over a couple of years.. and you change AA batteries like once a year.. You can even buy fancy energizer lithium batteries that will last 3 years.

    Now if your battery wears out, you gotta make a trip to the apple store.. They dont want users fixing or upgrading anything without going through the proper channels.
  • repoman27 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Or you could do the math. Apple rates their Lithium-ion batteries for 80% of their original capacity after 400 - 1000 complete charge cycles. So in 33 to 83 years, you can bring your Magic Mouse 2 in to the Apple store and bitch at them until they replace your battery for free.
  • Beany2013 - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    Shame most Li-Ion batteries start to drop off a cliff after a few years capacity wise, regardless of how they are used, and even if left in a partially charged state, eh? The only way around that is to keep them at low temperatures, but even that just delays the problem, as the materials in the batteries will *always* destroy each other in the end.

    It's not as bad as it used to be now that the manufacturing process has been refined, but it's still not something I'd want to have built in to an accessory I'd fully expect to last a decade.
  • nerd1 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    So they downgraded their 'desktop' keyboard to be consistent with new macbook keyboard (which is beyond terrible to me) and charging a ton for it? Typical apple.
  • name99 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Then buy a third party keyboard. WTF is stopping you?
    There are people who still use their ADB keyboards from 25 years ago...

    What the hell IS this mental pathology that insists "EVERYONE has to do things my way, and if some company introduces a product I don't like, it's not good enough that I have the choice to do things differently; I also have to stop everyone else from choosing to do things differently from me"?
  • Morawka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    the whole apple philosophy is "do it our way because we know better". They take choice away from the users. If they could get away with 3rd party keyboards and mice, they would've done it long ago.

    The whole eco-system is anti-choice and user lock in.
  • blackcrayon - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    "The whole eco-system is anti-choice and user lock in."

    He/she says on an article about optional *USB* peripherals... Couldn't make this stuff up.
  • blzd - Sunday, October 18, 2015 - link

    There are very options for keyboards with Mac layout.
  • blzd - Sunday, October 18, 2015 - link

    Very few*. Also Apple doesn't sell any of their older peripherals so in a way you're stuck with whatever they give you.
  • r3loaded - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    £110 for a goddamn trackpad? They've literally doubled the price!!
  • lordmocha - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Yep. In Australia, the old wireless was $90, the new is $165.
  • tipoo - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Is the sensor any different on the MM? Logitech, Microsoft and the like have been using various sensors that go past the usability of regular laser types for a while now. Bluetrack, Darkfield, etc. Better resolution and ability to track on non regular mouse surfaces, even glass.

    How about the side capacitive buttons which I always found a bit too annoying to activate? Or the annoying right click (which, as I recall, pretty much required you to lift your other finger off for it to recognize the right side being pressed alone)?

    As for the keyboard, I'm flabbergasted as to why they still don't like adjustable angles. Even the old ones fixed higher angle was better. People make fun of me because I attached felt tips to the upper bottom part of my rMBP, because I hate the flat keyboard angle and find it strains my wrists unnecessarily (I know with proper hand placement, ie floating above the wrist rest, it should not, but depending on where you're sitting that's not always possible). Same with the war on key travel. I consider my rMBP the absolute minimum. Maybe I'm already becoming an old fart behind the times and in a few years everyone will have key travel in the nanometers, but I don't find it comfortable at all when you start hitting 90+WPM.

    The Iris Pro 6200 ends up looking pretty good, but I pine for the 72EU Skylake Iris Pro instead. No dGPU on the 21" will be a turn off for some with only the Broadwell one.
  • tipoo - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Oh, and that cheaper 24GB (yes, 24) fusion drive should at least be the base in everything by now. OSX is not fun on HDDs anymore.
  • nerd1 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Like I said, apple want a CONSISTENT user experience over all its platforms - and for this case, the same as the new macbook.
  • jimbo2779 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    HDDs will give a very different experience to a machine with an SSD. No consistency there

    The MacBook would like run better than either iMacs with an HDD in it
  • DPUser - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Tipoo, by "MM" are you referring to the older "Mighty Mouse"? It definitely had the problems you mention with side and right click.

    I like the Magic Mouse (1.0) very much. It works really well for me in my work as an audio engineer. It's like a mouse and trackpad in one. Navigate any direction, with inertia when I want it. No buttons, but right click works perfectly. I don't even mind the batteries.
  • FelixDraconis - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I'm an iOS developer. I can assure you that we get tons of these apple "magic mice" and promptly throw them away. They are just so poorly unergonomic and hard to use. The few people who use them tend to complain but haven't realized they can ask IT for something else (or were offered even worse old PC mice and decided to suffer).

    The keyboards are okay. I see the occasional person use those, although a few have eventually started complaining their wrists hurt. I let them borrow one of my ergonomic keyboards for a day and they immediately go out to buy their own (or are able to request one from IT). Surprisingly one of the devs here managed to bend his, although he stubbornly continues to use it.

    I figure at best Apple's input devices are for very light users or nice for aesthetic reasons. They are otherwise junk and should be avoided because they are dangerous.

    Granted, I don't know much about the Trackpad. Never actually seen someone use one of those in actual work.
  • lilo777 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    "I figure at best Apple's input devices are for very light users"

    Indeed they just have to be good enough for a person to type in "apple.com" and click "buy". They are not good for anything else.
  • blackcrayon - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    You should really think about your purpose for posting in comment sections about Apple devices.
  • blackcrayon - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    If you're throwing away all of the magic mice you're getting (which is pretty stupid considering the cost), why wouldn't you just pick magic trackpads instead? They're great and almost as good as the laptop trackpads (maybe the same or better now with the new one). I'm assuming here you're talking about when you buy a new mac and get a choice of peripherals.
  • repoman27 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Yeah, I feel like everyone here is talking about the old Apple Mouse with the side buttons (that do indeed suck), not the Magic Mouse which is just one continuous, multi-touch glass surface (no side buttons).
  • lilo777 - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    Because trackpad is not an adequate replacement for a mouse? Perhaps, given a long history of lousy Apple mice, some Mac users are conditioned to use trackpads but in general most people prefer a mouse.
  • FelixDraconis - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    The cost is negligible. IT just buys standardized packages. Many SKUs simply come with the mouse & keyboard combo.

    The Apple mice are hard to hold, put people's hands into a cramped shape, don't register scrolling as precisely as Logitech scroll wheels (which is the one strength of the touch mice), etc. But the real kicker is that hardly any dev uses one for very long.

    I consider them harmful on the wrists for long-term use. Still, for the occasional user it probably isn't a big deal and a step up from the junky plastic mice many prebuilt systems ship with. So it's sufficient. But if you're serious about computing or ergonomics I would avoid them.
  • Spoony - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I like Apple's keyboards - low effort, short travel. However, I do not like wireless peripherals, and I hate their new arrow key arrangement and fat Esc key. The integrated lithium battery is neat, and it's probably the best charging system possible for this peripheral.

    Putting the charging port on the bottom of the mouse has to be a new high water mark for bonehead design from Apple. They often do a great job, but sometimes I scratch my head. This is one of those times. Otherwise, I dislike this mouse in general (and almost all Apple mice ever). Not very ergonomic, simultaneous two button detection is awkward.

    Magic Trackpad is the most interesting device. I can't say I've ever felt the desire to have a trackpad on my desktop. When I tried the previous Magic Trackpad with my computer I did not like it. I just use a decent mouse. However it seems to be the best executed of these products and I could see using it in some circumstances.

    Overall these products are not for me!
  • erple2 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I didn't either until I started using it. I prefer it now over a mouse, and find it more ergonomic than using a mouse. BTW, I'm a software developer by trade.
  • FelixDraconis - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    I admit I've never seen a software dev try out a trackpad! There was a period of time some of us we were experimenting with the 3D Connexion 'mice'. But that didn't last long. Largely due to limited support.
  • topps - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    as a vi user, thank you for the extra large esc key :)
  • nrencoret - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Conveniently forgot to mention the incredible ergonomics of the mouse charging port at the bottom eh?
  • lilo777 - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    Pointing out obvious deficiences of Apple devices would be very un-anandtech like, I guess.
  • iwod - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    1. How many recharge cycle are there? 500? And for those who keeps complaining about the life expectancy of the battery, if you only have to recharge once per month, that is 41 year. Even if you half that is it 20 years.

    2. I would like to know why the decision was made to have the port at the bottom, but the charging time for magic mouse, I guess turning it upside down didn't really matter? Or it is to mimic the swapping batteries where you turn the mouse upside down anyway.

    3. Do anyone actually like the Magic Mouse shape, isn't it too flat?

    4. Why Bluetooth 4.0 and not 4.2?

    5. No Backlight for the Keyboard?

  • DPUser - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    2. Two minute charge for 9 hours use? Sounds pretty manageable.
    3. I like it. Yes, different at first, but quickly became beloved.

    5. No numeric keypad either. I use wired.
  • Zak - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    I interviewed a support technician once who said he didn't like to work with Macs because there was no registry and there was no way to change any advanced system settings like in Windows. If there is a problem you basically have to wipe and reinstall OS X. I showed him the Terminal and asked him if he ever saw it and he said it was a text editor. So yeah, this is the kind of people who complain about OS X. There are very few people (like in this thread) who actually used both and have good, articulated reason to prefer one over the other. Neither OS X nor Windows is better. It's a matter of preference. You can do your stuff on both. But don't spew uninformed bullshit you overheard on the elevator.
  • Miller1331 - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link

    More snake-oil from the kings

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